Your choices are Kill, or ... Kill

[Mal Malenkirk]

The argument that you can't judge a book without having read it is sound and common sense.

Similarly, no critics worth his salt would dare publish a critic of a movie based only on the preview.

The argument that you can get a fair idea of whether or not you will like a product based on a preview is also sound. It doesn't invalidate the previous argument, though. It doesn't even dent it. It's called having expectations.

Whenever I go see a movie after having first seen the previews, I have expectations. These expectations are then exceeded, met or disappointed. And then I pass judgement.

 

[John Q. Mayhem]

I think you're taking issue with the idea that you have to read a book to judge it, not the logic, pawsplay. Just 'cause the logic's right doesn't mean I am, if I start from faulty premises

However, I'll stick to my guns that judging something that we haven't seen (subdual damage rules and other means of non-lethal subjugation for instance) is nonsensical.

And thanks, pemerton. You're a better mind than I am.


EDIT: Excellent point, Mal.

 

[SSquirrel]

Funny, I have friends who despised the first book in the Jordan series, but they had heard it was a good trilogy (yes awhile back heh) and they forced themselves to read the second book. They ended up hooked and it's one of their favorite series. Just b/c some of the preview information isnt' to your liking doesn't mean we have seen the finished versions. Like the Paladin Divine Challenge that was broken but fixed too late for a character sheet change. I'm really curious what the final form will look like and how many of the gripes some people have won't be in the final version.

Just kind of irksome that people who enjoy 4E can't point to things in 3E but people are free to claim there is more than enough to say things like 4E will practically remove RPing from the game, "obviously" the only answer to a situation is to kill something and other ridiculous statements. Neither of those are attributed to you paws, just a couple of things in this and other threads that get thrown about. Almost as much as 4E is too anime/videgamey/whatever. 3E had pocket Pally Mounts, did that make the entire game based on Pokemon? To listen to some people it did.

Personally I've never seen more of Synnibarr than it's name so I'm not one of those people apparently heh. I just think there is more value to holding a guarded opinion and looking att he final product than many of the folk crowing about how they will never play 4E etc.

 

[Lonely Tylenol]

Nice job, pemerton.

 

[pawsplay]

The argument that you can't judge a book without having read it is sound and common sense.

Similarly, no critics worth his salt would dare publish a critic of a movie based only on the preview.

The argument that you can get a fair idea of whether or not you will like a product based on a preview is also sound. It doesn't invalidate the previous argument, though. It doesn't even dent it. It's called having expectations.

Whenever I go see a movie after having first seen the previews, I have expectations. These expectations are then exceeded, met or disappointed. And then I pass judgement.

Simply seeing the movie is a judgment, though. I seriously doubt you see all movies, all the time. You select. No critic worth his salt would publish a critique of a movie based on the preview, but no sensible person would see a movie when the trailer makes it seem unappealing.

 

[pawsplay]

Just kind of irksome that people who enjoy 4E can't point to things in 3E but people are free to claim there is more than enough to say things like 4E will practically remove RPing from the game, "obviously" the only answer to a situation is to kill something and other ridiculous statements.

I know that in SW Saga, grappling and tripping are not options for most characters. You can "grab." Actually crushing, pinning, or tripping requires a Feat. Since trip is bound up in a power now, I am comfortable predicting that 4e will be much the same situation. As noted upthread, in SW Saga, Darth Vader cannot even lift a Rebel and strangle him without using a Force power, because he does not have the Crush Feat.

There are other options in SW Saga besides killing. You can use stunning weapons. You can try to knock someone out by cumulatively affecting their condition track. Both of those are essentially another way to attack. Grappling, tripping, and the like have been excised from SW Saga; they are not options for standard characters. Disarming and striking weapons has been ridiculously nerfed, to the point many of the fights in the movies are statistically implausible in game terms.

I have seen plenty in the playtest reports about special moves, gaining buffs, and laying down damage or status effects. I see nothing like the combat options you have in 3e.

 

[hong]

I know that in SW Saga, grappling and tripping are not options for most characters. You can "grab." Actually crushing, pinning, or tripping requires a Feat. Since trip is bound up in a power now, I am comfortable predicting that 4e will be much the same situation. As noted upthread, in SW Saga, Darth Vader cannot even lift a Rebel and strangle him without using a Force power, because he does not have the Crush Feat.

Sure he can, if said rebel has surrendered and isn't fighting back.

 

[pawsplay]

Sure he can, if said rebel has surrendered and isn't fighting back.

Show me how.

 

[mach1.9pants]

Whenever I go see a movie after having first seen the previews, I have expectations. These expectations are then exceeded, met or disappointed. And then I pass judgement.

This

 

[hong]

Show me how.

He picks up the rebel, and chokes the out of him.

Wasn't that easy?