Your experiences with Creeping Doom

[Vyvyan Basterd]

The swarms don't overlap because the swarms would be crowded in that overlap. They essentially refuse to pack in less space or crawl over each other; the exception is that they will crawl over things that they need to kill, hence targets do not count for against the overlap.

Where does it say this in the RAW? The SRD says that "It can occupy the same space as a creature of any size, since it crawls all over its prey..." It does not limit that the other creature cannot be a swarm.

 

[kigmatzomat]

Slobber_monster asked for a rational reason why the swarms should not overlap. I gave one. Nothing was said about RAW.

Swarms can intermingle IF they are fighting. Matter of fact if they want to fight they have to intermingle since they have no reach and must move into their target's square.

Since the discussion was of swarms of the same type (Creeping Doom) the question of why multiple swarms don't overlap is the same as asking why a single Large swarm cannot occupy a 5' square by crawling over itself. The answer is: at that point it doesn't have enough room to be a monstrous "Swarm" and becomes a "pile" of targets.

 

[frankthedm]

Their grapple checks are pretty good, so even if your fighting Mr. Awesome NPC he can still get grappled by the insects. And there's also the distraction and poison saves.

Common sence should be enough to tell a swarm cannot grapple a creature. The effects of being in the swarm are already the aproximation of the little buggers 'grappling'. But since that is not enough for the rules forum...

Traits: A swarm has no clear front or back and no discernable anatomy, so it is not subject to critical hits or flanking. A swarm made up of Tiny creatures takes half damage from slashing and piercing weapons. A swarm composed of Fine or Diminutive creatures is immune to all weapon damage. Reducing a swarm to 0 hit points or lower causes it to break up, though damage taken until that point does not degrade its ability to attack or resist attack. Swarms are never staggered or reduced to a dying state by damage. Also, they cannot be tripped, grappled, or bull rushed, and they cannot grapple an opponent.

 

[Vyvyan Basterd]

Slobber_monster asked for a rational reason why the swarms should not overlap. I gave one. Nothing was said about RAW.

The main purpose of this forum is to discuss RAW. While it is fine to give your interpretations of unclear rules and even discuss intent, you should be careful to post the intent of your message. The default assumption here is that you are speaking from the RAW unless you qualify your statements as interpretation, opinion, or conceived intent.

It seemed you were presenting your interpretation of unclear overlap rules as RAW. Sorry if I read into that incorrectly.

 

[Caliban]

The main purpose of this forum is to discuss RAW. While it is fine to give your interpretations of unclear rules and even discuss intent, you should be careful to post the intent of your message. The default assumption here is that you are speaking from the RAW unless you qualify your statements as interpretation, opinion, or conceived intent.

This is incorrect. That is not the main purpose of the forum.

As it says it right beneath the forum name:

This forum is for D&D Rules questions and queries about character design/tweaking.

It does not say "This forum is for discussing D&D Rules As Written." It is not mentioned anywhere in the forum guidelines either.

While it is fine to debate the rules and even discuss RAW, you should be careful not to force your opinion of how the forum should operate on those who wish to simply discuss the rules, with or without RAW.

Making a default assumption that everyone is speaking about RAW unless they qualify their statement is just that: an assumption. And we all know what happens when you assume.

 

[Ogrork the Mighty]

I don't think swarms deal multiple damage to creatures that occupy multiple spaces. The way I read it, as long as a swarm ends its movement in an occupied space, that occupying creature takes swarm damage. I think it's a little bit of a stretch to say that the damage is per occupied space.

 

[KarinsDad]

This is incorrect. That is not the main purpose of the forum.

Nonsense.

The house rules forum is for house rules. This one is for rules, not house (or made up) rules.

 

[RigaMortus2]

The older version was easily preventable by having just 1 point of Damage Reduction. Since each insect dealt 1 point of damage seperately.

 

[KarinsDad]

On topic:

1) Swarms cannot grapple. They have a - in that line.

2) Swarms can move into squares of other swarms since other swarms are creatures and the rules state that swarms can move into the squares of other creatures. So, the Druid can have multiple swarms attack a creature.

3) Swarms do not attack the same type of swarm:

For game purposes a swarm is defined as a single creature with a space of 10 feet - gigantic hordes are actually composed of dozens of swarms in close proximity.

...

Larger swarms are represented by multiples of single swarms. A large swarm is completely shapeable, though it usually remains contiguous.

So, a Druid could turn multiple single swarms into a larger swarm and have it attack.

 

[KarinsDad]

I don't think swarms deal multiple damage to creatures that occupy multiple spaces. The way I read it, as long as a swarm ends its movement in an occupied space, that occupying creature takes swarm damage. I think it's a little bit of a stretch to say that the damage is per occupied space.

Agreed. It should be per swarm attacking.