Your experiences with Creeping Doom

[kigmatzomat]

It seemed you were presenting your interpretation of unclear overlap rules as RAW. Sorry if I read into that incorrectly.

If I were stating it as RAW I would give a page # for the book or the SRD reference. But sometimes the RAW doesn't explain why certain things don't work as being obvious to the authors.

I thought that since a Swarm is a mass of sub-creatures and a Swarm has a minimum area for its size (which is based on the number of creatures within it), the poster I was responding to did not understand the general concept of a Swarm.

 

[Pielorinho]

Okay, quick mod note.

Mod Note:
This thread isn't the place to discuss the purpose of this forum. If that's a discussion that interests you, please read the stickies at the top of the forum and then start a thread in Meta. But don't carry that discussion on in a thread on a different subject.

Back on topic:
Do folks agree, then, that multiple swarms can pile on top of each other to inflict their damage simultaneously on the subjects of the square? If so, that makes this spell much, much better, possibly even too good: it'd be pretty easy for a 16th-level caster to make this a 16d6 damage spell that lasts 1 minute/level and inflicts 8 poison saves and 8 distraction saves per round. That's pretty nasty.

Daniel

 

[KarinsDad]

Do folks agree, then, that multiple swarms can pile on top of each other to inflict their damage simultaneously on the subjects of the square? If so, that makes this spell much, much better, possibly even too good: it'd be pretty easy for a 16th-level caster to make this a 16d6 damage spell that lasts 1 minute/level and inflicts 8 poison saves and 8 distraction saves per round. That's pretty nasty.

Not really.

16D6 per round against a single opponent is not really that potent. The Swarms have a max speed of 20 feet. Most opponents would be able to run away from that. A simple Fly or Levitate spell would protect against them. DR 10 would mostly protect against it. And, it is pretty easy to make the saving throws at that level.

A single Fireball could wipe out all of the Swarms, let alone a Dispel Magic.

There are a lot of ways to handle this. Basically, it is a 16D6 attack against a single opponent. After that at that level, problem handled.


Compare the damage to Energy Current. Energy Current could do 16D6+16 against one opponent (8D6+8 against a second). Even with making the saving throws, that's 12D6+12 to 24D6+24 per round. Every round of combat, not just one. Sure, it is a Concentration power, but that is usually handled by Solicit Psicrystal.


Or even Cone of Cold at 15D6 times multiple opponnts. Against 4 opponents, that would be 30D6 to 60D6 damage. A 16D6 Swarm will almost never do that much damage before getting wasted at those levels.

 

[Nail]

I'm not sure multiple swarms can overlap. Especially given the line "Larger swarms are represented by multiples of single swarms. A large swarm is completely shapeable, though it usually remains contiguous."

A contiguous swarm is not the same as overlaping swarms.

FWIW, IMC I use swarms that have 5x5x5 sections. As they take damage, I remove 5x5 squares from the swarms.

 

[Endur]

Multiple swarms become one large swarm.

So, I only apply damage to a creature in the swarm once. i.e. a collosal dragon standing inside a dozen swarms takes 2d6 damage.

 

[frankthedm]

Swarms look like they are packed to the max. But a huge or bigger critter is in a touch of trouble.

For game purposes a swarm is defined as a single creature with a space of 10 feet - gigantic hordes are actually composed of dozens of swarms in close proximity.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
A swarm of Diminutive creatures consists of 1,500 nonflying creatures
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Swarms of nonflying creatures include many more creatures than could normally fit in a 10-foot square based on their normal space, because creatures in a swarm are packed tightly together and generally crawl over each other and their prey when moving or attacking.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Larger swarms are represented by multiples of single swarms. A large swarm is completely shapeable, though it usually remains contiguous.

 

[geosapient]

Multiple swarms should be able to stack on a single creature of large or larger size and do more damage.

It would be like a person (RL) in Texas getting bit by fire ants. *5 ants could pose a possible health risk, 10 ants and he'd probably need immediate medical assisstance, 15 or more would likely result in death.

The point is that the more vermin that can get on and bite, the more the damage would be.

*Numbers provided in example are made up numbers. I'm not sure how big they get in Texas, just that they grow larger than in Pennsylvania. There have been cases of people dying in Texas from fire ants.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Corresponding from Texas...

Its not that Fire Ants are any bigger, its that they swarm relentlessly and have a nastier poison. I got stung (repeatedly) by a single one while climbing a rock wall, and my thumb swelled up with a good dime-sized, 1/4th inch high lump.

If you fall in a regular ant mound, you'll probably get a few stings...if you fall into a Fire ant mound, you're going to be stung 20+ times, easily.

The other nasty thing about fire ants is that there is a new subspecies or new behavior (about 10 years old)- whereas they used to have single mounds with single queens, they've started having multiple cooperative mounds with multiple queens. Where the former kind would be a pest, the latter are a pestillence- they tend to denude the area of all animal life, sort of a modification of army or driver ant behavior.

 

[frankthedm]

If you have enough Creeping Dooms I believe these would be legal.
5'-5'-5'-5' might count as contiguous. I'm too lazy to try to make a diagram for diagonally aligned squares if those somehow count as contiguous.

http://img300.imageshack.us/img300/527/doomedcreepsfc3.gif

Otherwise here is optimum placement as i can see for Creeping Doom.

Http://img167.imageshack.us/img167/1461/doomedcreepscontiguousrp3.gif

 

[Ogrork the Mighty]

FYI. The rules for mobs (DMGII, p. 60) allows for the use of the Trample feature when mobs pass over a creature but don't end in the creature's space. That would lead me to think that you can't deal swarm damage twice with two moves since the designers thought of an applicable mechanic, at least for mobs (which act like swarms).