Particle_Man
Explorer
takasi said:
You spend some of your bonus spell abilities to get shadow spells, right? I seem to recall they are not part of the "basic" spell list of beguilers.
Your Experiences with Non Core Characters
- Thread starter Hussar
- Start date
You spend some of your bonus spell abilities to get shadow spells, right? I seem to recall they are not part of the "basic" spell list of beguilers.
Wik
First Post
I currently play a Wu Jen character (we had our second session last night!) The spells are definately a bit different than what you'd get as a wizard, but not so much that it's a huge departure. And the watchful spirit class feature (especially combined with the feats that modify watchful spirit, found in Complete Mage) is definately a lot of fun to play with - re-rolling initiative to act first means that I can really play a buffer/summoner mage reliably.
The taboos, though, are the real fun of the class. I chose some fun ones (can't sleep during a storm; can't leave a building the same way he came in), and they've really developed the character. Last session, I was stuck getting absolutely drunk so that I'd be in a different state of mind when I left the "dungeon" we were in, because I had to take the same door.
***
Some other classes I've seen:
DRAGON SHAMAN - great character at low levels, as it pretty much insures no one's gonna die (even one round of fast healing will stabilize your companions, and most monsters won't knock you straight till -10 until you're around 5th level or so). The player that ran it, though, got bored around 8th level, and switched to a sorcerer.
In my play group, we have a dragon shaman ran completely differently. He's definately alright, and uses the breath weapon fairly often. I like the use of auras - he chose completely different auras than the one I GMed for, and it's nice to see the same class ran in a completely different way.
WARLOCK - the warlock I GM for got nuked in only a few sessions. He was an alright character that was fairly useful, but he didn't really stand out. He wound up getting knocked unconscious by a naga's lightning bolt. And then he fell thirty feet.
Splat.
WARMAGE - seen it a few times. It's an alright class, I guess, although I think a sorcerer is probably more useful. In fact, in our current group, we have a sorcerer/wild mage and a warmage - and the sorcerer definately comes off as being more useful. Pure damage just has so many uses, you know?
Psychic Warrior - Like it. Just saw one being used last night, and it's an alright mix. I think straight fighter is probably a better build, but we'll wait for a few sessions before I make a final decision.
SPELLTHIEF - my favourite class! even if it's got limited playability, it's just so much fun when you steal a spell. It's got "DM Determined" useability, meaning that if you have a GM that throws a lot of orcs and whatnot at you, it's not going to be useful all that often. But if you have a GM who throws a spellcaster at you every now and then, yeah, it'll be a lot of fun. In fact, last night, I counted about three times where I could've used my spellthief. Had I but known, eh?
SCOUT - kind of a cheese class, I think. We had a scout/ranger character that would move and shoot, every round. At low levels, he was a damage machine. I guess this wouldn't be the case at higher levels (since he'd be giving up a full attack in exchange for skirmish damage), but at low levels? Painful.
The taboos, though, are the real fun of the class. I chose some fun ones (can't sleep during a storm; can't leave a building the same way he came in), and they've really developed the character. Last session, I was stuck getting absolutely drunk so that I'd be in a different state of mind when I left the "dungeon" we were in, because I had to take the same door.
***
Some other classes I've seen:
DRAGON SHAMAN - great character at low levels, as it pretty much insures no one's gonna die (even one round of fast healing will stabilize your companions, and most monsters won't knock you straight till -10 until you're around 5th level or so). The player that ran it, though, got bored around 8th level, and switched to a sorcerer.
In my play group, we have a dragon shaman ran completely differently. He's definately alright, and uses the breath weapon fairly often. I like the use of auras - he chose completely different auras than the one I GMed for, and it's nice to see the same class ran in a completely different way.
WARLOCK - the warlock I GM for got nuked in only a few sessions. He was an alright character that was fairly useful, but he didn't really stand out. He wound up getting knocked unconscious by a naga's lightning bolt. And then he fell thirty feet.
Splat.
WARMAGE - seen it a few times. It's an alright class, I guess, although I think a sorcerer is probably more useful. In fact, in our current group, we have a sorcerer/wild mage and a warmage - and the sorcerer definately comes off as being more useful. Pure damage just has so many uses, you know?
Psychic Warrior - Like it. Just saw one being used last night, and it's an alright mix. I think straight fighter is probably a better build, but we'll wait for a few sessions before I make a final decision.
SPELLTHIEF - my favourite class! even if it's got limited playability, it's just so much fun when you steal a spell. It's got "DM Determined" useability, meaning that if you have a GM that throws a lot of orcs and whatnot at you, it's not going to be useful all that often. But if you have a GM who throws a spellcaster at you every now and then, yeah, it'll be a lot of fun. In fact, last night, I counted about three times where I could've used my spellthief. Had I but known, eh?
SCOUT - kind of a cheese class, I think. We had a scout/ranger character that would move and shoot, every round. At low levels, he was a damage machine. I guess this wouldn't be the case at higher levels (since he'd be giving up a full attack in exchange for skirmish damage), but at low levels? Painful.
takasi
First Post
Particle_Man said:
Yes. The Advanced Learning class feature. Shadow evocation / conjuration are must haves.
Gnome beguiler:
+4 = 18 base int
+2 = +4 int from leveling
+3 = +6 int from enhancement bonuses
+2 = spell focus and greater focus illusion feats
+1 = racial bonus
+2 = cloaked casting
That's a DC 29 for Shadow Evocation. Nasty.
Last edited:
VirgilCaine
First Post
I played a dwarven Dragon Shaman for a level until I was killed by a vampire.
I really like the idea of being the meat shield that breathes fire (or acid or whatever) on people. The auras seemed kinda cool, but I really wished I had a martial weapon.
Not a fan of Warlocks. The flavor locks them into an Angel kinda vibe--I use evil powers, but I'm not evil! They get too few tricks to be interesting to me. Saw one played and he seemed useful enough...but the same thing over and over again seemed boring.
Another player played a Rogue/Warlock, but her character was really really suboptimally made (spread out the Rogue skill points into useless skills and took feats of questionable utility--Blindfight).
I also saw a Knight played for a little bit, and a Scout, both by the same player. They seemed okay, but I dislike the Knight.
Beguilers, IMO, don't get the cool large scale illusion spells that wizards get (shadow spells, terrain and structure alteration, the defensive spells...) that I like, so I don't really like them.
I really like the idea of being the meat shield that breathes fire (or acid or whatever) on people. The auras seemed kinda cool, but I really wished I had a martial weapon.
Not a fan of Warlocks. The flavor locks them into an Angel kinda vibe--I use evil powers, but I'm not evil! They get too few tricks to be interesting to me. Saw one played and he seemed useful enough...but the same thing over and over again seemed boring.
Another player played a Rogue/Warlock, but her character was really really suboptimally made (spread out the Rogue skill points into useless skills and took feats of questionable utility--Blindfight).
I also saw a Knight played for a little bit, and a Scout, both by the same player. They seemed okay, but I dislike the Knight.
Beguilers, IMO, don't get the cool large scale illusion spells that wizards get (shadow spells, terrain and structure alteration, the defensive spells...) that I like, so I don't really like them.
Particle_Man said:
I've never had any problems with archers, though I actually can't remember the last time we had one of those. And I typically use munchkin as a catch-all term for people who seem to lack the maturity necessary for a roleplaying game; basically, people who have played way too many video games to the point that they don't realize there are more important things than just killing stuff, and that there aren't really any winners or losers. Powergaming, meta-gaming, rollplaying, etc. are all symptoms of a munchkin.
Doug McCrae said:
One would think that, but such things simply never happen in my games. It has much less to do with mechanics and more to do with the focus of the class. Warlocks focus on blasting things, and so every single Warlock PC that has entered my campaigns has done nothing but blast things. On the other hand, even other combat-oriented characters such as Fighters and Barbarians usually have some sort of personality, albeit maybe a cliche one. I've actually never had anyone abuse Diplomacy or the Druid class. And while it's true that other spellcasters (such as Wizards and Sorcerers) can focus just as much on blasting things as Warlocks do, it simply doesn't happen; well, I admit it's happened a few times, but it seems like they're more often to split up their spells between offensive, defense, and utility spells. Maybe it's more a problem with my players than with the class, but every single Warlock PC I've seen has the personality of a pubescent teenager with ADHD and hyped up on caffeine, and his Eldritch Blast effectively functions as his drug. I suspect War Mage would end up equally bad.
Doug McCrae said:
I don't really use "muchkinny" to mean overpowered. Though, I have seen some very powergamed Warlocks that can easily annihilate things in one hit with their eldritch blast. Also, I don't allow Spell Compendium or Abjurant Champion in my games. I don't like the way SC changed some spells, and AC is just plain bad game design.
Particle_Man
Explorer
Dyne said:
There are more important things than killing stuff? Guess I am not mature enough for your games.
Hairy Minotaur
Explorer
My game currently has:
Warlock - He's a recruiter for a LE god's temple and rolyplays him as an opportunist with some levels in rogue so he likes to get people flat-footed and blast them within 30'
Binder - Fills in as a serviceable back-up to any of the front line casters and fighters in the party, roleplayed as an outgoing philanthropist
Shifter - really the overpowered party member, many a combats are finished after the shifter advances to melee range
We've had:
Dragon Shaman - character died as it was a good class to have if the party contained more melee types than it did, as it was, most of it's auras were wasted as the enemies generally advanced to the DS and beat on him
Scout - Played as a ranged assassin, died because he was skilled out to be a dungeon rogue as opposed to a wilderness rogue. The party relied on him to fill the ranger niche which he couldn't do
Warlock - He's a recruiter for a LE god's temple and rolyplays him as an opportunist with some levels in rogue so he likes to get people flat-footed and blast them within 30'
Binder - Fills in as a serviceable back-up to any of the front line casters and fighters in the party, roleplayed as an outgoing philanthropist
Shifter - really the overpowered party member, many a combats are finished after the shifter advances to melee range
We've had:
Dragon Shaman - character died as it was a good class to have if the party contained more melee types than it did, as it was, most of it's auras were wasted as the enemies generally advanced to the DS and beat on him
Scout - Played as a ranged assassin, died because he was skilled out to be a dungeon rogue as opposed to a wilderness rogue. The party relied on him to fill the ranger niche which he couldn't do
Remathilis
Legend
I've played a psion (one game), and have had the luxury of seeing a warlock (fun, but very 1 trick pony until later), knight (I liked it, DM hated the taunt ability), scout (one game, but fun until the 10'x10' rooms), mystic (love the concept, but weak vs. full casters), and hexblade (one game, but pretty much a fighter type) all played. I've used warmages and healers as NPCs/Villains though, and they are fun/nasty.
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