Your FLGS and You - What's your take?

[Chris Knapp]

My FLGS (Game Empire) is awesome. Chuck, the owner, is a great guy, even if he appears to be more of a miniatures guy than a D&D guy. The other guys who work there are all nice and willing to talk your ear off. The shop is clean and bright and the heat/AC works. They have great stock. Every current WotC item is on the shelf or in a display. They still have a bunch of 3.5 stuff available. They also carry Pathfinder, Exalted, GURPS, True20, and all kinds of other games systems I have never tried. At the front of the store, they have a large board game section as well as traditional game stuff (poker, backgammon, etc.) They also have a great used section. Every time I go in, I find some old book I've been looking for, often for only $5.

The best part is they sponsor a free D&D game day the first Saturday of each month. Its run by another guy here on ENWorld (Festivus) and he does a great job. They have a pretty big gaming area (maybe 12 4x8 tables worth) that are always filled. The people who attend are mostly good people and fun to game with. Even the cases of bad BO are few and far between. (Unlike the M:tG game day's they sponsor on other Saturdays. Boy, does the store reek on those days. . .)

So, while I can go to Amazon and pick up Martial Power 2 for $20, I gladly pay the extra $10 to help keep the lights on there.

 

[Glyfair]

Okay, that being the case then, I am still just baffled at the assertion by the head of Goodman Games (anybody recall his name?) that the FLGS is still one of the primary marketing arms / ground forces for PnP RPG distribution. The dearth of quality FLGSes would seem to indicate that they're not really the best indicator of the RPG movement (minis games and CCGs is another story). So why this "faith," or "trust" that the FLGS is really "in touch" with the PnP RPG community?

I don't really think there is quite such a "dearth" of goods stores out there. I think this perception may come from a couple of things. A lot of this is taste. I have seen quite a few people in my time comment about how they avoid the FLGS because they won't match Amazon's prices (or come very close). The FLGS will never be able to compete on price.

A lot of comments deal with the "they cater to CCG players." Well, both of the excellent stores in my area have a strong CCG contingent. Anyone who comes into the Newark, DE store on Friday night may get the impression there is no room for RPGS, because that night there isn't (unless you are very trusted and allowed in the private area). Almost any other night of the week, and you will find room (and often one going on).

Even so, an FLGS doesn't need active RPG games to necessarily support them. Just being a conduit to get players together to discuss the games in person and see the games on the shelves can be a big bonus.

Also, I think the internet as the great savior of RPGs is a bit overstated. I think the internet brings in less RPG players than the games stores did in their heyday. Thus, even a weekend FLGS network is more important to the heart and soul of the industry today than the internet today is. It just might not seem that way on an internet discussion board, where presumbably everyone has regular internet access, and uses it.

 

[Rykion]

The second mistake, as I understand it, is that a significant portion of their regulars were "hangers on." They hung around, used the areas, but didn't spend money. Not a recipe for success.

I think this is a danger even good game stores run into. The good stores are usually owned and/or staffed by gamers. It is only natural that their friends and regular customers start hanging out in the store. These people can be a regular source of income, but they can make new or infrequent customers feel like outsiders at a private club. It's important that the staff remembers they are at work, and that they are there to help everyone in the store.

 

[innerdude]

A lot of comments deal with the "they cater to CCG players."

Even so, an FLGS doesn't need active RPG games to necessarily support them. Just being a conduit to get players together to discuss the games in person and see the games on the shelves can be a big bonus.

Well, I know for me personally that's been the case for all of the half-dozen or so FLGSes that I have visited in the greater Salt Lake City market. At even the best of them, the RPG element is always an afterthought to the M:TG and minis customers. Yes, they have them, yes, they sell them because it's kind of "expected" to sell RPGs at a game store, but they don't seem particularly interested in developing a long-term "player community."

To a point, though, your comment about simply getting the people together occasionally could make a difference in perception / word of mouth. I guess this brings up another question, which is how much faith or trust do people put in those who frequent the FLGS as being representative of their tastes in gaming? I guess for me, one of the big barriers to frequenting an FLGS regularly is that I don't feel that the "average customer" at the local stores is really indicative of the type of gaming experience I've come to expect.

 

[Jeff Wilder]

I'm curious to hear from the community what everyone's typical experience is with the FLGS in their neighborhoods / towns.

Aside from my fumbling attempts at DMing for my friends in junior high, my first long-term group met in a game shop -- the long defunct Games Galore in Louisville, Kentucky. The owners -- an older couple named Roger and Libby -- were fantastic, friendly, and funny, and the highlight of my week for those years was Games Galore on Saturdays, from 10 AM to 5 PM. I bought all of my gaming stuff from them, shamelessly embezzling from my paper route money.

After that, I went a long time without really using a game shop for anything but the occasional purchase. And I usually made those at my comic shop, which carried RPGs on the side.

When I moved to San Francisco I started going to GameScape on Divisidero. They were okay, and I knew a guy who worked there, so I gave them my business. That ended when I caught the employees shamelessly cherry-picking the WotC D&D miniatures boosters. They couldn't even understand why I didn't appreciate the behavior. Service there had already gotten almost unbearable, so cutting ties didn't take much.

When I took up the skirmish game (DDM), I started playing weekly at GameKastle in Santa Clara. They rented a suite in an adjacent building, and we had some great league nights and tournaments there. I met some people I still hang out with occasionally, and I really liked the staff. They've moved since, but I think are still in Santa Clara somewhere.

While I was still active in the DDM scene, I moved back north to SF and frequented Endgame in Oakland, which is the first shop since Games Galore in which I actually played games, if you don't count GameKastle's adjacent suite. (Endgame has a fantastic loft with half a dozen big tables, and they were reasonably friendly.) At this point I bought most of my stuff online, because while I'm willing to spend lots of money I still like to get things cheap, but I went out of my way to buy something there pretty much every week. Then came DDM 2.0, which killed my interest in DDM (and eventually killed the local scene completely), and that was it.

Endgame's the last game shop I've been in. I buy everything online now.

 

[Chainsaw]

Seems to me that game shops tend to be a very personal business, essentially becoming extensions of the owner/manager's own personality and living room. If you're lucky enough to have a guy that's honest, friendly, clean and accepting of different games running a shop near you, then you've probably got yourself a winner.

My friend that hosts the LFR games (that I criticized) basically opens up his home a couple times a week to have anywhere from 6-15 guests (including strangers). He's a great guy - all of the things I mentioned above - and, in a way, his place is like a game shop with an RPG focus and without the sales component. So, in that context, I suppose I can appreciate and believe that some folks may have had really positive store experiences. It really all depends on who's running the show, I guess. Their behavior sets the standard for the shop.

 

[Herschel]

I have numerous ones I enjoy in the area. They all operate in somewhat different ways but I certainly can understand dealing with issues of overhead, staffing, space, etc. We have them in South Minneapolis, Falcon Heights, Oakdale, Anoka, Saint Louis Park, Burnsville, Blaine and Brooklyn Park and a friend even opened one in Inver Grove Heights. Eight in a local metro is pretty solid.

Most have a lot of CCG or console gaming (or both) but that's to be expected with modern economics. People buy online too often for a store to survive on PnP RPGs. It used to be most stores I frequented (between four metros)were chock full of product with very little 'game space'. That all changed about, oh, 15 or so years ago. They expanded floor space to host games, including CCG tournaments because they wanted to survive. It's a catch-22. People don't buy from them so they carry less overhead/product and then people complain they don't have everything. Too many also use the FLGS as a preview library to figure out what they're going to order from Amazon and they're lucky if they grab a D20 from the discount bin.

Gamer snobbery is rampant also. I try to avoid it as much as possible. I modeled in my younger days, Was a jock, bathe regularly, have a job in corporate finance, a good relationship with the SO, etc. Some good people I like would be considered 'ungly losers' to many, but I don't care. I'm definitely not immune to being superficial (and can have opinions stronger than anyone) but this is something I think gamers need to work on in general.

Except for furries. They can all go straight to Hades.

 

[Tewligan]

Back in SoCal, I used to go to Last Grenadier in Pasadena (then Burbank) and it was a disgusting hole. They had TONS of stuff, but it was poorly organized, like moving through a labyrinth, it was dirty and the guys that worked there seemed ambivalent about customers coming in and browsing around. They never asked what I might be interested in, instead worked on their miniatures and stuffing their faces. As a bonus, the one or two staffers that were there almost NEVER had a clean shirt on. Ugh...

Oh god, that place. I used to go there when I was living in L.A. near Burbank. Yep, your experience pretty much exactly matches mine. The few times I'd ask if they had something, they'd wave in the general direction of their disorganized, sloppy shelves and tell me that "it should be over there if we have it." Never offered to order anything if they didn't have it, and always seemed reluctant to pull themselves away from their internet browsing or their conversations to ring me up when I had finally found something and brought it up to the counter. Oh, and their OOP stuff for older editions of D&D was just stupidly overpriced. God, that place was awful. I eventually found out about the awesome Game Empire in Pasadena and gladly started making the longer drive for a store that was clean, well-stocked, and didn't act like I was an inconvenience.

Oh, as for my current FLGS - I can't say enough good things about Guardian Games in Portland. It's clean, well-run, the staff are friendly and helpful, and if they don't have what I want, they'll order it. Plus, they host Beer and Pizza parties every month, which makes everything awesomer!

 

[Votan]

Edit: Oh, and there are always the know-it-alls giving unwanted advice like, "Gosh, I can't believe you took power X instead of power Y. What? You took that because it fits the theme of your guy? Doesn't make any sense. You are 5% less likely to be successful in situation X and, as your teammate, I'm going to suffer. Thanks alot."

Good manners in pick-up games is an important skill and often over-looked. This is one area where the culture of the store and the DM can often do a lot to make a game more open to newcomers/infrequent players. The idea of a gaming store as the center of a community is a good one but seems to require real work to maintain.

 

[talarei07]

the flgs near me is crap. i was looking for the new world of darkness stuff by white wolf and when i called them they told me that the store is owned by gamers and they hate new world of darkness and therefore dont carry it and they were unwilling to order it for me because they dont want to contribute to white wolf.