your penalty for character death

[Retreater]

I invested myself in my character. Purchased and custom painted a mini, developed an indepth background to fit the campaign. I was the only player to take notes and email to all players. And last session, after 7 months of play, my character died. It was not a stupid death. Instead the party quicky got in over its head with insta-kill spells that dropped the barbarian. My character died heroically covering the retreat of the party cleric (same diety). An emotionally charged scene.

I've been playing the game long enough to know this can and does happen. This is the way the dice fell, and I'm fine with it. What is not so cool is that the DM brings in my replacement character (with no access to raise dead due to a stingy party) at a level and a half lower than the lowest level character (whose player misses 50% of the sessions) and with less gear.

Now my character has come in with no background or connection to the campaign and is the weakest party member.

Am I right to be a little miffed at this? How would you handle it?

 

[Holy Bovine]

I invested myself in my character. Purchased and custom painted a mini, developed an indepth background to fit the campaign. I was the only player to take notes and email to all players. And last session, after 7 months of play, my character died. It was not a stupid death. Instead the party quicky got in over its head with insta-kill spells that dropped the barbarian. My character died heroically covering the retreat of the party cleric (same diety). An emotionally charged scene.

I've been playing the game long enough to know this can and does happen. This is the way the dice fell, and I'm fine with it. What is not so cool is that the DM brings in my replacement character (with no access to raise dead due to a stingy party) at a level and a half lower than the lowest level character (whose player misses 50% of the sessions) and with less gear.

Now my character has come in with no background or connection to the campaign and is the weakest party member.

Am I right to be a little miffed at this? How would you handle it?

Did the DM not state up front how replacement PCs would be handled? If not that is pretty poor form on his part. If he did then I would say you knew the risks.

I'm going to assume that no discussion of how to handle replacement PCs took place. That was a mistake, imo, but they happen. Ideally everyone knows before hand what happens if your PC dies but in this case I would talk to the DM, point out your attendance record vs. Mr. Missalot and ask how you can connect with the campaign and party. Does he have any ideas? Do you? For some reason it sounds like the DM made your new PC? Is this correct?

 

[CuRoi]

I'm most worried about this part:
"(with no access to raise dead due to a stingy party)"

Are you SURE it's the DM's fault your starting a new PC? Not sure the economics of the campaign but you said you have been playing for 7 months with that PC - got to be at a level where a Raise is at least on the table?

At any rate, as a DM I usually dock new characters just a little bit. I've played in games before where it was actually a good thing to die because it meant you could come back pretty much at the same level and be able to cherry pick your magic items with a gold allotment. Just seemed sort of unfair to the regulars and/or survivors.

One and a half levels behind the lowest level player (who sounds like they are already behind) sounds harsh though I've got to ask - what system?
There's a HUGE difference between being 1.5 levels behind in say ADnD as opposed to 3.5.

 

[Stormonu]

As a DM, I'd always used the rule that a replacement character was 1 level lower than their last, regardless how the death occurred. Until 3E came out, said replacement character only started with mundane gear. Most other DMs I talked to did the same, if not requiring you to start at 1st level. So, I'm pretty much used to your DM's attitude being standard and fair.

Of course, the groups I've DMed usually were good about redistributing items so the new character usually ended up with a few magical items - the rest of the party realized being stingy on properly equipping party members put everyone at risk.

 

[scourger]

...Mr. Missalot...

That's funny. In my mind, he immediately became Sir Missalot.

For the OP, 2 words: revenge character. I can't tell you how many times I've had a fine character who met an untimely & ignoble end covering the retreat or just generally because the game is more about tactics & strategy than storytelling & heroics (read: powergaming) Then, when I bring in a replacement character that I think is more in line with the "careful" (read: cowardly) style of the others, I got accused of making revenge characters. So, just go with it. Make a revenge character that is very careful and not a risk taker. Let someone else cover the retreat next time and suffer the consequences. Then, you can scoop up the xp with hand and the loot with the other.

It is one of the things that frustrates the heck out of me about the game. So much so that I actually let a player bring in a replacement character of higher level once when I DMed. He didn't have a bunch of stuff--because let's face it the careful survivors loot their dead comrades which causes a further accumulation of power in characters that are already on top of the power scale--but he did have levels. I just didn't want to punish the player because his original character died heroically. So, I didn't. His new character came in at a higher level but with only 1 limited use item. It worked great, too. That thief became that party's greatest fighter, and fun was had by all. I would do it again, too.

You've got to now evaluate if you can even have fun continuing to play in that game. I left our last D&D game after my character, mount & cohort died under similar circumstances. I just didn't have it in me to bring in a replacement. And, I didn't have the inclination to try to keep up with the munchkining of the surviving characters. So, I didn't. I returned for the tail end and played the twink of another player who dropped out. It was fun, too; but then I missed one session. Turned out it was an unexpected climax and afterward the strategists killed the campaign basically by complaining that the lewt was not phat enuff. Ruined a multi-decade player on his first campaign DMing. Even though he ran that game for about 2 years, he's vowed never to return to it; and I doubt he'll ever DM again. Sad really.

Anyway, I hope you can salvage your game. If not, take a break from it.

And, check out this site for fun, especially the video on clerical duties:

Dungeon Bastard

 

[Ahnehnois]

I used to have people make new characters at a lower level (because some people were gratuitously switching characters on a weekly basis), but now I don't bother. These days, it seems like the loss of a character you worked so hard on is penalty enough. Frankly, losing a character that I buillt plotlines for and designed special rules for is not a good thing from my (DM) perspective either.

As far as a new character coming in with no background, I find that can actually be a great storytelling opportunity, just like when a TV show shakes up its cast.

Am I right to be a little miffed at this? How would you handle it?

The DM might just be pursuing an ideal of "fairness" by forcing you to earn your stripes a bit instead of just giving you a high-level character. Perhaps he has a philosophy that there have to be penalties for death, or death is meaningless. Or maybe there's another reason. Do I agree with it? No. As a DM, I'd rather have a balanced party of PCs. If I was a player and this happened, would I be miffed? Yes. I feel that by putting in the work to create a character and make the session I've earned the right to have my character be mechanically effective during that session. But always try to understand where your DM is coming from (and you know him better than I do).

This is definitely something to have words with your DM about (civil, well-thought-out words). Good DMs are good listeners.

 

[HelloChristian]

If/when a PC dies in my Pathfinder game, the new character may enter play at the same level as the other party members. I see no point in penalizing a player with a lower level character.

I hope you can find a way to still enjoy the campaign.

 

[Pheonix0114]

I think you should talk to the dm, and that you have every right to be upset.

In my games, when I use xp, if a character dies they can make a new character at 2 levels below the character that died, and have the "recommended amount of gold" for that level to buy items. After that, they gain xp at a 2x rate until they reach the average party level. It does make them weaker initially, but it is to represent the rareness of adventurers. The 2 level lower was meant to represent that the character could have been a cohort if someone in the party had the leadership feat.

 

[Retreater]

We are playing Pathfinder. Of course we had no discussion about bringing in replacement characters at the start. Our group's usual (for other campaigns) is coming in at the lowest XP total (so equal to Sir Missalot).

We had two character deaths in the same combat early in the session, so we were both pressured to make new characters ASAP so playing could resume. Not ideally configured, interesting from an RP perspective, and not well adjusted into the campaign.

I am hard at work on my revenge character, a dullard min/maxer only out for himself. I am working hard to be the most effective character despite the handicap.

 

[Herremann the Wise]

We are playing Pathfinder.

I'm GMing a Kingmaker campaign at the moment where there is a fair degree of variance of player input - but each to their own, I don't like penalizing a player because they're not big on the email between game sessions thing. [If a player regularly misses game sessions that would be annoying - something I have not had to deal with]. And so in regards to XP, I believe the player earns it as much as their character. If your character has 12,546 XP when they die, then your new character will have 12,546 XP too. I think the penalty of losing a character in an involved campaign is significant enough without overtly penalizing further. The only other difference is that new characters can use the core rules only. I only allow material from APG, UM (and UC as of this morning) for levels earned in game (although new classes are obviously negotiable). I think common sense here rules the day; I have not had any complaints thus far.

I would talk to your GM and see if there is anything he can do to help you out. If I was in his position and had already laid down this rule and could not reverse it, I would ensure that because of your hard work as a player, your character (and you as a player) would be rewarded in some way. I generally discourage resurrections unless it is quite thematic to the game or a particular character. For your character, I think having sacrificed himself for the good of the party is an act not to be cheapened by bringing him back - but that's just me. If you as a player really wanted that character back, I would most likely find a way to do it.

Best Regards
Herremann the Wise