your penalty for character death

[Roadkill101]

I have the player of a deceased character make up a new character. Then the player has to wait until I can provide a situation that allows the new character join the group, which may mean the next session depending on when in the current session the previous character died and what sort of location and situation the party is involved in.

Normally the games I run are in a classless and levelless system where what character advancement exists is slow, so there's not a lot disparity of character power between existing characters and new characters. All new characters have the choice to start with a minor magical item or two and I have a habit of not handing out powerful items of a magical nature, so any differences in gear aren't much of an issue either.

For D&D campaigns, I have the player roll a 1d4 to determine the level of any new characters, such that a new character may be one or two levels behind, equal to or possibly even one level ahead of the rest of the party. magic items are determined randomly based on a percentage equal to characters level for the various slots (armor/protective item, weapon/offensive and number of miscellaneous items dependant on the overall party level), then the presence of any such items are determined randomly. I do not run any 3.x games, so wealth/magic by level guidelines are not part of the equation, and I have yet to try my hanbd at running 4e.

As a Player, I don't really care, letting the GM of the particular game make those guidelines up as they see fit when necessary.

I'm not a big fan of resurrection or raise dead effects as a player or GM.

 

[Nagol]

??? Sounds like you need to man up and throw a whiny tantrum of your own, then!

Or at least a case for taking the DM aside and suggesting politely, but firmly, that replacement characters be treated in a consistent and fair manner regardless of how easy-going the player is.

Campaigns I run always have understood replacement/retirement rules before play begins. Usually new characters come in a level lower than the average party level (minimum 1) with a wealth level expected for the campaign. One of the advantages of 3.5 in the way xp skews to help bring a lower character up to the same level as his peers in relatively short order.

 

[delericho]

Unfairly enough the party did have one raise dead scroll and gave it to the barbarian because the adult player threw a tantram. He then decided to bring in a different character anyway. The DM let him come in at full XP and gear (partially due to the whining) but also because there was some penalty for his character's death. (It seems my penalty is a little harsher.)

Ah, in that case I take it back: you have a major reason to be annoyed. The DM must be fair. By allowing one player to come in without penalty, but requiring you to take a one-level penalty, he is not being fair.

So, yes, you should take this up with the DM. And stand your ground on this one: if the other player comes in at the same level, so should you.

 

[jasper]

I ...

..(with no access to raise dead due to a stingy party) at a level and a half lower than the lowest level character (whose player misses 50% of the sessions) and with less gear. ....

Now my character has come in with no background or connection to the campaign and is the weakest party member.

... How would you handle it?

Yellow Alert Yellow Alert Danger Will Retreater! Danger Will Retreater! Signs of bad group....
Now that I got out my system. Over the years it was at lowest level of playing characters. But then became lowest level of ACTIVE characters. So if Sir Misslot's pc was 5 and the rest of the group was 7+ you would come in at 7th. But I would occasionly if Sir Misslot would start playing regularly just promote his pc to 7th. Some didn't like it, I didn't like it. But it did make the group near each other power levels and I did not worry about which pc was going to be Elmyra Monster's chew toy that night.
As to magic that varied across the universe, I had groups which not give the new pc a +1 dagger from the old pc even everyone else in the group had +3 weapons. Or worse get mad at player kill pc take his magic items and repeat. My avg become +1 weapon, +1 ac thingy and one more thing (wand, scroll what ever.
But between all your posts, your group is showing signs which would make me start look for a new group (or quit). The DM has allow a whiner to get more bennies that you. And put very very far down on power level.
A DM must be fair, to players, pcs, monsters and himself.

 

[jasper]

..Then the player has to wait until I can provide a situation that allows the new character join the group, which may mean the next session depending on when in the current session the previous character died and what sort of location and situation the party is involved in.

.....

Have to disagree with you here. I would never let a player sit out a session until I find a in game reason to bring the pc in. It is a game not a book.
The only time I would let a gamer sit out the rest of session is if it is the final combat of night. And Boss Monster aka the wife, ruler of house, she wouldn't like play with my friends ever again. is saying closing time
Ok got carried away. Final combat/turns of night. And it is near 11PM which is where we all shut down the game.

 

[Wednesday Boy]

Am I right to be a little miffed at this? How would you handle it?

I certainly would be. Regardless of whether the GM made this policy known ahead of time or not, I don't think there are any positive outcomes to a GM to penalizing their players like this.

For positive deaths (like yours where the character dies because of good, in-character roleplaying or heroically sacrificing themself for the group), these types of rules simply punish your good players for being good players and highlight that altruism comes with a price.

For negative deaths (such as where a player is trying to game the system by letting their character die so their new character gets free choice of magic items or where a player is fickle about their characters and continually wants to play a new one), the GM should have a mature discussion with that player about expectations for the campaign instead of attempting to deter those players with the threat of bringing in a lower level character.

 

[dagger]

Our process:

1) Cast Speak with Dead: "Do you want to come back to the land of the living."
2) If the answer is yes, then they will come back. Whatever it takes, and if they cannot afford the required spell then its an opportunity for a Quest (the Cleric needs some special herb for his soup found only at the bottom of a forgotten crypt). Or maybe a good chance for roleplaying with a party member agreeing to switch to the faith of the cleric.

Some players don't like to come back because they will lose a level, but that's easy to prevent.

 

[Hassassin]

The important thing for the DM is to be consistent and let everyone know how it's going to be handled before the fact.

In my current campaign I told them new characters would be level one, at least until the rest of the party would be high level. I let the players decide the specifics of how the new addition happens, unless they ask me to make up something.

In higher level campaigns I've used minimum PC level -1 or average PC level -1 (rounded down). Other DMs have used same level or level -1, but that makes Raise Dead seem worse, so I don't like it. The idea that there are equally good extras waiting in the sidelines also distracts from "epic quest" type plots, where the party is supposed to be the only hope against forces of darkness.

 

[Pbartender]

What is not so cool is that the DM brings in my replacement character (with no access to raise dead due to a stingy party) at a level and a half lower than the lowest level character (whose player misses 50% of the sessions) and with less gear.

Many years ago, I played in a 3rd Edition campaign run by a DM who used a similar rule... In fact, it had been standard practice for our group that new characters would join the group at one level lower than the party's average level (or something very similar). At any rate, because this particular DM's play-style (a very rules-gotcha, out-to-get-the-PCs, adversarial sort of DM) and the adventure we were playing through (Return to the Temple of Elemental Evil), we ended up playing for nearly a year (weekly 4-hour sessions) but our average party level never increased in all that time, because of the number of levels effectively lost to character deaths. In the end, we rebelled against the DM and ended the campaign early... The encounters and threats kept increasing in power, but our characters collectively couldn't keep up with them.

So, ever since then, I've had new characters introduced at the average party level (unless the details of the campaign dictate otherwise). If the PC died for in-game reasons, then there is no reason to penalize the player. If the PC died because the player was being stupid in some way, then that's better addressed out-of-game with the player.

Therefore, I no longer believe in penalizing a character in-game for dying, and for similar reasons I no longer believe in in-game penalties for player absences.

 

[Vyvyan Basterd]

I no longer penalize characters for player actions. So every character in the group has the same XP no matter if the player is there or not, though I push for the character to be available so someone else can play the character for the missed session. If a player begins missing games somewhat regularly (~50%) without good reason I would probably seek replacement player(s). And if it becomes frequent (>75%) for any reason, I definitely look for a new player. [cheap plug]Which we are looking for right now![/cheap plug]

Death works out the same. Any new character coming in starts at the same XP as everyone else.

I've proposed a new way to handle treasure and gear to my players. All treasure would go into a "group trove." Characters can borrow items from the trove and as a party they can spend the money in the trove to buy items, rituals, expendables, etc. A player wouldn't really borrow money from the trove, the group would buy an item first and once the item is part of the central trove a character can borrow it. We're playing 4E, but I've upped the sale value of items to 50% and allowed purchase of any item, not just common, to make up for gear mismatches if they occur. I've completely thrown out Wish Lists and instead pick a few options I wish to hand out that should cover the bases of usefullness for someone in the party.