"You're a half elf? Really?" From the P.A. Podcasts

[UndeadScottsman]

It's been mentioned before, but I'll repeat it again. The reason Omin is a half-elf is because he's one of the "Keep on the Shadowfell" precreated characters. It wasn't really a active choice on Tycho's part, and I'd be willing to bet he picked the character more for the class than the race. As such, it's probably not a huge part of the character, so it doesn't get mentioned much.

'course the problem got compounded by the fact that Scott and Gabe keep drawing him with human ears, but whatever.

Second, "leader of AI"? Isn't that Binwin? Meh, I could easily be wrong there.

I'm not sure how you could have missed that. They repeatedly refer to Omin as the CEO of AI, and Wheaton's character continually calls him "boss."

 

[malraux]

I'm not sure how you could have missed that. They repeatedly refer to Omin as the CEO of AI, and Wheaton's character continually calls him "boss."

Which, incidentally, is far more "half-elfish" in 4e than talking about hairclips.

 

[Majoru Oakheart]

"Near human"? Huh? He's not human. Near human is kinda like "near pregnant".

No, it's nothing like that. Humans and Half-Elves are separated only by pointy ears and a couple small other physical differences depending on the edition. They are about as close as 2 different humans are.

Again, for the bloody umpteenth time, I'm not saying he has to act "that much different". I'm saying he should spend THIRTY FREAKING SECONDS making sure that the other players actually know that he isn't human. That he should make the barest effort to ensure that "Huh? You're a half-elf? Since when" is not uttered at the table, just like it is at pretty much every table I've ever played at whenever someone is playing an elf or a half-elf.

I agree that someone should have spent 30 seconds when people met them to say "I have pointy ears", but other than physical differences, I see no reason to mention it again. If people weren't listening, and they decided to ask later "You're a half-elf?", then really that's their fault.

As far as power-gaming, what else would you call it? Choosing a particular option, not because you have any in game role playing reason, but solely for the mechanical bonuses it brings is the very definition of power gaming. When you (and I mean this in the non-specific, general "you") chose an option for your character for the sole purpose of a bonus, what else can you call it?

I call in gaming. In the same way I don't begrudge someone for using a get out of jail free card in a Monopoly game instead of serving his time for the full duration like a proper "roleplayer" would do, I don't begrudge people making good decisions in the game of D&D.

Also, it's been said before, but you CAN'T Roleplay during character creation. You don't have a character yet, so you can't decide anything from his point of view. You don't look at your character sheet and ask yourself "What race would a blank character sheet be if it had the choice?". You instead say "What class do I feel like playing? What race would go well with that choice of class?" That's a normal part of playing the game. Playing a Half-Elf Bard in 4e is simply a good choice. I'm certainly not going to claim that a player should have been Human instead because they had no reason other than mechanical ones to choose Half-Elf. Rather, it's the other way around, they had no reason at all to play a Human.

Lastly, "you think the default for the game should be human". Buh? Huh what? Where did I say that. I said that if you are not going to play your character as anything other than human, you should play a human. If your character is played in such a way that no one knows what he is, the default assumption of pretty much every player is that he's human. After all, if that wasn't the assumption, then no one would be surprised when it turns out that he isn't human.

I think that's a problem with the players involved. I don't assume anyone is human. If I haven't had any hints as to someone's race, I just assume that they could be ANY race. If anything, I assume they are one of the races that has the best stats for their class. After all...why wouldn't they?

if you cannot be bothered putting in thirty seconds of effort into defining a very obvious physical element of your character, that's bad role playing. If the portrayal of the character is so lacking in any evidence to the rest of the table that they are caught by surprise when your race is revealed, then that's entirely on the player's head.

I think sometimes the roleplaying simply doesn't focus on that. We've had campaigns where we met each other in a situation where we had to immediately jump into action because there was a battle underway. We gave a brief description of ourselves, but didn't have time to talk. We then found out that there were a bunch of people kidnapped in the battle and immediately decided to go look for them. We were on a deadline, no time to chit-chat about whose ears were longer, who liked beer, whose clothes didn't fit, or who had elven jewelry. We'd then get caught up on quest after quest, always in a rush. Sometimes it wouldn't be until session 5 or 6 when I'd know someone's race. No big deal. It's just one part of their character.

 

[Hussar]

Hussar, don't even go and read the 'How much reflavoring is too much?'-thread on the WoTC forums; the general consensus over there seems to be that it's okay to "reflavor" every aspect of the mechanics. For example, imagine a human warrior wielding a dagger and a longsword, and who also has a bad breath that stuns his opponents; mechanically this character is actually a dragonborn barbarian wielding a bloodclaw greataxe.

Personally, I don't care if someone allows stuff like this in his games... we all have different tastes and preferences. However, I don't allow such reflavoring (especially if it's clearly for powergaming's sake, such as the third character wielding a bloodclaw weapon, only reskinned as something else) at my table, and I expect that to be fine, too.

As for half-elves, it's not far-fetched to expect that at least some of them resemble and embrace more their human half , and therefore may not be automatically recognised at first glance as half-elves (Tanis, for example). However, I agree that you could assume your friends would know it, unless the character is actually something like 10% elf/90% human (although such a character would mechanically be, in my opinion, human and not half-elf).

Whoa. Hang on a tick. I have no problems with re-flavoring. That's groovy. My problem is with having no flavor at all.

People keep bringing up Tanis. When you read the books, were you ever surprised that Tanis was half-elven? Were any of the other PC's ever surprised that Tanis was half-elven? At any point in time, was the fact that Tanis wasn't human EVER at doubt?

No. It wasn't. Same with Elrond. Everyone knows that Elrond is Half-Elven because that his freakin' name.

That's all I want. Just the simple recognition. It doesn't have to be chest beating "I am KLINGON" all the time. Spock is half-Vulcan, but, the fact that he's NOT HUMAN is brought up by other characters all the time. It's one of the defining elements of that character.

If you reflavor your half-elf to be something else. Fine. But, make the thirty seconds of effort to make sure that the other people at the table KNOW what you are.

"Actually, to be honest, I'm kind off embarrassed of my elven heritage. All that wind chime, leafy garments and eating honey-seed cake stuff is lame. And don't even get me started on those pretentious, poncy eldarin. That's why I wear a hat over my ears.

yeah, sure my father may have been an Elf, but I like human things. Greasy roasted racks of ribs, greased pigs contests at the faire, big-breasted serving wenches, hunting doves, big spiked skull crushing maces, that's the kind of human stuff I enjoy! Human style, all the way, that's me. I like to say that my ears are half-elven, but I'm 100% human inside!"

BINGO! Done. That's all it takes. Thirty seconds, you've established your character's race and given a great little roleplaying hook for the other players to bounce off of, particularly in a group where you have another elf type (or eladrin as the case may be).

Well done you sir.

 

[malraux]

No. It wasn't. Same with Elrond. Everyone knows that Elrond is Half-Elven because that his freakin' name.

Ummm, I had no idea.

 

[Hussar]

Did you, at any point in time, think he was human?

 

[garyh]

Did you, at any point in time, think he was human?

How is assuming Elrond is an elf (which is exactly how he acts) any better than assuming Elrond is a human?

 

[Hussar]

Because at least it's not an assumption of the standard.

But, ignoring that one example for a second, did you at any point in the LOTR think that:

Frodo, Sam, Pippin or Merry were not hobbits?
Legolas wasn't an elf?
Gimli wasn't a dwarf?
Aragorn or Boromir wasn't human?

Making a minor mistake on a bit character that appears for a chapter or two in a pretty lengthy book is one thing. Making a mistake on a main character is a whole different level.

About the only one you could really make the claim for is Gandalf. I'll freely admit that if you never read the Simiralian, you'd have no idea that he wasn't human. Then again, I have no problem saying that that's a mistake on Tolkien's part. Neglecting to mention that one of your main characters is a quasi-immortal angel is a pretty big oversight IMO. But, meh, he's a DMPC anyway, so whatever.

Can you name a single movie or novel that you've seen where the species of a protagonist came as a surprise? Where you learned that X was something and you went, "Buh? What? Since when?" ((Again, excepting of course when that's a plot point.))

 

[malraux]

Can you name a single movie or novel that you've seen where the species of a protagonist came as a surprise? Where you learned that X was something and you went, "Buh? What? Since when?" ((Again, excepting of course when that's a plot point.))

Well, as you mention, both elrond and gandolf are not of their apparent race, yet that seems to not matter one whit in the books; moreover, since there isn't a dramatic reveal, you can't even count that as a plot point. But half-elves and humans are not two separate species, as they interbreed and produce viable offspring. Moreover, half-elves and humans live in the same communities, grow up the same, and live as humans with slightly pointy ears. It is only in settings like Eberron where the mixed races breed true and have their own distinct culture.

edit: oh and harrison ford's character in blade runner.

 

[Voadam]

Because at least it's not an assumption of the standard.

But, ignoring that one example for a second, did you at any point in the LOTR think that:

Frodo, Sam, Pippin or Merry were not hobbits?
Legolas wasn't an elf?
Gimli wasn't a dwarf?
Aragorn or Boromir wasn't human?

Making a minor mistake on a bit character that appears for a chapter or two in a pretty lengthy book is one thing. Making a mistake on a main character is a whole different level.

About the only one you could really make the claim for is Gandalf. I'll freely admit that if you never read the Simiralian, you'd have no idea that he wasn't human. Then again, I have no problem saying that that's a mistake on Tolkien's part. Neglecting to mention that one of your main characters is a quasi-immortal angel is a pretty big oversight IMO. But, meh, he's a DMPC anyway, so whatever.

Can you name a single movie or novel that you've seen where the species of a protagonist came as a surprise? Where you learned that X was something and you went, "Buh? What? Since when?" ((Again, excepting of course when that's a plot point.))

Gandalf, whatever.

I'm trying to remember whether Riddick in Pitch Black is supposed to be human or not. I thought so in the first movie but in the second they make a big deal that he is an X and introduce the elementals who have invisibility and air walking which could imply nonhuman.