"You're a half elf? Really?" From the P.A. Podcasts

[Hussar]

Malraux - first off, while it was Omin's thing that started all of this, don't get too tied into that specific example. This is something I've seen for years.

Second, "leader of AI"? Isn't that Binwin? Meh, I could easily be wrong there.

"Near human"? Huh? He's not human. Near human is kinda like "near pregnant".

Again, for the bloody umpteenth time, I'm not saying he has to act "that much different". I'm saying he should spend THIRTY FREAKING SECONDS making sure that the other players actually know that he isn't human. That he should make the barest effort to ensure that "Huh? You're a half-elf? Since when" is not uttered at the table, just like it is at pretty much every table I've ever played at whenever someone is playing an elf or a half-elf.

As far as power-gaming, what else would you call it? Choosing a particular option, not because you have any in game role playing reason, but solely for the mechanical bonuses it brings is the very definition of power gaming. When you (and I mean this in the non-specific, general "you") chose an option for your character for the sole purpose of a bonus, what else can you call it?

Lastly, "you think the default for the game should be human". Buh? Huh what? Where did I say that. I said that if you are not going to play your character as anything other than human, you should play a human. If your character is played in such a way that no one knows what he is, the default assumption of pretty much every player is that he's human. After all, if that wasn't the assumption, then no one would be surprised when it turns out that he isn't human.

Again, for the bazillionth time, and I think this is where I get off here because people are far more interested in nit picking than actually discussing, if you cannot be bothered putting in thirty seconds of effort into defining a very obvious physical element of your character, that's bad role playing. If the portrayal of the character is so lacking in any evidence to the rest of the table that they are caught by surprise when your race is revealed, then that's entirely on the player's head.

 

[malraux]

"Near human"? Huh? He's not human. Near human is kinda like "near pregnant".

No, he's half human. That's near human. And given the oddities of inter-species genetics, he could well be 3/4 human and raised in a human home.

Again, for the bloody umpteenth time, I'm not saying he has to act "that much different". I'm saying he should spend THIRTY FREAKING SECONDS making sure that the other players actually know that he isn't human. That he should make the barest effort to ensure that "Huh? You're a half-elf? Since when" is not uttered at the table, just like it is at pretty much every table I've ever played at whenever someone is playing an elf or a half-elf.

In 4e, elves are pretty noticeable. They have a distinct racial power, elven reroll. Mechanically, they stand out. Half-elves and humans do not have distinct racial power. They have an extra class power instead. It isn't something that would be apparent quickly, especially in an occational campaign like the podcast once. Remember, they've only had 3 sessions with tight time constraints. There isn't space for detailed RP. That said, it only takes one minute, 30 seconds for the fact that Omin is a half-elf to be mentioned.

As far as power-gaming, what else would you call it? Choosing a particular option, not because you have any in game role playing reason, but solely for the mechanical bonuses it brings is the very definition of power gaming. When you (and I mean this in the non-specific, general "you") chose an option for your character for the sole purpose of a bonus, what else can you call it?

At the start, you have to pick a race. If you just don't care about race, you still have to pick a race. Powergaming would be something like picking a minotaur. It implies picking the most powerful option out there, but the PHB races are all pretty balanced, at least relative to the MM races.

Lastly, "you think the default for the game should be human". Buh? Huh what? Where did I say that. I said that if you are not going to play your character as anything other than human, you should play a human. If your character is played in such a way that no one knows what he is, the default assumption of pretty much every player is that he's human. After all, if that wasn't the assumption, then no one would be surprised when it turns out that he isn't human.

Again, for the bazillionth time, and I think this is where I get off here because people are far more interested in nit picking than actually discussing, if you cannot be bothered putting in thirty seconds of effort into defining a very obvious physical element of your character, that's bad role playing. If the portrayal of the character is so lacking in any evidence to the rest of the table that they are caught by surprise when your race is revealed, then that's entirely on the player's head.

Again, its not like this is a weekly campaign. The evidence could be clear in the first session, but that was months ago.

 

[MrMyth]

And you guys are applauding this. That's what totally blows my mind. That this isn't seen as a bad thing.

Someone playing the game the way he and his friends enjoy it? Yeah, that isn't a bad thing. Condemning someone else for not playing the way you want? That is absolutely a bad thing.

Even worse is the fact that you think there is a problem playing a half-elf who doesn't make a big deal of his heritage - whether because they have embraced their human side, or simply because they don't feel the need to make their race the most prominent aspect of their character.

I haven't listened to all the podcasts, but the sense I get? His character's class is a far more defining feature to him than his race. That is where a lot of his motivation and personality lies. And thus, race becomes less material besides his religious focus.

Should he also be taking to task for not talking more about his parents? Or where he came from? Or any number of other myriad details? No one is required to hit some sort of checklist of information they need to unload on other players. There is no "you must be this tall to play D&D" requirement. A player builds a character they want to play. They share that player with their friends. If they don't focus on the details that are less important to them, that does not in any way make them a bad roleplaying, or a bad gamer, or somehow less worthy than you to play D&D.

To claim otherwise is a fundamentally flawed outlook, and one I am definitely glad I don't have to deal with among my friends, in our games.

The irony, here? The only other criticism I've seen of the podcasts - on a thread in the WotC forums - is that the players don't worry too much about the rules, and occasionally make mistakes or run things incorrectly. And that holds just as little weight, in the end.

They are concerned about having fun by playing a game with their friends. They enjoy being part of a shared story experience, enjoy seeing their characters in action - defeating the villain, saving the day, the usual D&D experience. The fact that they don't meet some other groups arbitrary requirements for how to play? Irrelevant.

They are the ones playing, and as long as they are having fun, they are clearly doing it right.

 

[Voadam]

Again, for the bazillionth time, and I think this is where I get off here because people are far more interested in nit picking than actually discussing, if you cannot be bothered putting in thirty seconds of effort into defining a very obvious physical element of your character, that's bad role playing. If the portrayal of the character is so lacking in any evidence to the rest of the table that they are caught by surprise when your race is revealed, then that's entirely on the player's head.

Obvious physical element? You mean their tapered ears? Is there another physical element that all half elves have that could not be visually identical to a human's?

Didn't Tanis half-elven conceal his half-elven nature in the Dragonlance books simply by growing his hair long enough to cover the tops of his ears?

I can see going the other way as well.

How different is the half human spock from other vulcans?

How different is the half human Elrond from other elves?

 

[malraux]

How different is the half human Elrond from other elves?

Wait, elrond is half human?

 

[RefinedBean]

Wait, elrond is half human?

Yeah, it's a bit of a surprise, isn't it?

Unfortunately, Hussar wasn't around in Tolkien's time to tell him how to truly emphasize that part of the character.

 

[Voadam]

Wait, elrond is half human?

Sort of. I guess to be technically correct I should have said how is Elrond Half-Elven not like an elf.

 

[Voadam]

More on Tolkien half elves here.

 

[Primal]

Hussar, don't even go and read the 'How much reflavoring is too much?'-thread on the WoTC forums; the general consensus over there seems to be that it's okay to "reflavor" every aspect of the mechanics. For example, imagine a human warrior wielding a dagger and a longsword, and who also has a bad breath that stuns his opponents; mechanically this character is actually a dragonborn barbarian wielding a bloodclaw greataxe.

Personally, I don't care if someone allows stuff like this in his games... we all have different tastes and preferences. However, I don't allow such reflavoring (especially if it's clearly for powergaming's sake, such as the third character wielding a bloodclaw weapon, only reskinned as something else) at my table, and I expect that to be fine, too.

As for half-elves, it's not far-fetched to expect that at least some of them resemble and embrace more their human half , and therefore may not be automatically recognised at first glance as half-elves (Tanis, for example). However, I agree that you could assume your friends would know it, unless the character is actually something like 10% elf/90% human (although such a character would mechanically be, in my opinion, human and not half-elf).

 

[Blair Goatsblood]

"Actually, to be honest, I'm kind off embarrassed of my elven heritage. All that wind chime, leafy garments and eating honey-seed cake stuff is lame. And don't even get me started on those pretentious, poncy eldarin. That's why I wear a hat over my ears.

yeah, sure my father may have been an Elf, but I like human things. Greasy roasted racks of ribs, greased pigs contests at the faire, big-breasted serving wenches, hunting doves, big spiked skull crushing maces, that's the kind of human stuff I enjoy! Human style, all the way, that's me. I like to say that my ears are half-elven, but I'm 100% human inside!"