Pathfinder 1E You're the CEO of PAIZO. Now What?

[czak]

I'd get some of my fan creations looked at, Peached, and published@!!!


What's the process for submissions? I'm liking the playtest classes I've read (Cavalier, Witch, Oracle, Summoner), and I have an idea for one. I think it'd work, but I need to format this sucker and get some feedback.

new to PF, or I'd already know.


Also: I think the who edition wars thing is about as useful as blaming Xbox or PS3 for your life's problems. I buy both. I just got the Beastiary, and the crew likes the new classes enough we might run a game from the SRD (until we can afford the books; we're all poor post-students with debt and pregnancy as a factor; but the booooks are sooo coool.... and I'd like to check out the Efreet books, as I really love the art. Ditto the Prescott Council of Thieves books!)

Basically, it's like addictions work: people go over and over reasons why someone has hurt them, lacking the life skills to say "okay, let's get over the hurt and focus on making our lives".
not to say that making up for things you've done wrong isn't important; but you can't live your life waiting for other people to admit it. So for the edition wars I'd recommend stopping focusing on why 4e and PFRPG "hurt you" as a gamer, and focus on moving on.
In fact, the best thing would be to see and enjoy both for what they are: one as a combat engine and great intro for newbs; the other as an expanded and freer general set of guidelines, with a broader system and setting. If you prefer one over the other, go with that.

I'm glad Lisa, James and Eric have responded to this thread and focused on the strengths of what they're doing. They've been clear for why the partnership with Wizards didn't work for their longterms happiness goals. However, they haven't focused on "the hurt". It's this kind of maturity that allows me (who enjoys both sytems) to enjoy both for what they are.

as an aside, taking the leaps Paizo did as a company has been fun to watch. I can only imagine the fear and suchnot involved in starting up the Pathfinder line, and seeing it pan out.

The best way to get your work seen by paizo staff is to either participate in the RPG Superstar contest next year (http://paizo.com/rpgsuperstar - this years contest is over) or submit something to the pathfinder society (http://paizo.com/pathfinderSociety/submissions).

If you are keen on new class design then try a third party publisher, or make your own using either the fan license or the compatibility license. Or perhaps a submission to Wolfgang Baur's Kobold Quarterly magazine.

 

[billd91]

There were scads of posts claiming that WOTC screwed their customers something fierce, that they fired their customers, that they OWED them something. And they got hounded and hounded.

Isn't the quote above an example of the pot calling the kettle black?

RPG fans are an interesting bunch...

Maybe, but I've seen WotC-fan apologists, who were critical of 3e fans badgering WotC, hounding Paizo. So, yes, there's plenty of it to go around.

 

[catsclaw227]

Unless BryonD was specifically one of those posters doing the above then I'd say NO it's NOT a case of the pot calling the kettle black. Unless youre just blindly labeling everyone who is not a 4E fan a WOTC hater which is not the case at all.

That's a good and fair point. I quoted BryonD, but should have noted that my reference to his quote wasn't directed at him particularly, but instead was indicative of a wave of reaction to WOTC when everything went down, not necessarily his personally.

BryonD, If you didn't express the sentiment that WOTC screwed your or owed you something when they jumped to 4e, then I apologize for not making it clear that I was expressing a general sentiment and not yours specifically.

I dont give WOTC any of my money not because I hate them but because they dont produce anything that I'm interested in buying any more. It's the first time in many years that I HAVENT given WOTC any of my money. Paizo makes a product that I like so they've been getting the bulk of my RPG money instead.

That's great, because I give Paizo my money for the same reason. But I also give my money to WOTC, because they make the edition D&D that I currently prefer to play.

I mean are you saying that things like the long initial delay of the GSL and the revoking of the WOTC/TSR PDF's are things people should be pleased with and are not worthy of ANY kind of criticism?

Nah. I never mentioned the TSR/WOTC PDF thing. I hated that they pulled the PDFs. That sucked hard then and I think it sucks hard now. I liked collecting all the old 1e adventures I don't have in print.

I just found it ironic that, in defense of Paizo and their choices, there was the quote that Paizo doesn't owe anything to anyone.

It's sorta how I felt about the 3e --> 4e edition change when many posters (or maybe it was just a vocal few, hard to tell these days) said that WotC owed them something.

 

[catsclaw227]

Maybe, but I've seen WotC-fan apologists, who were critical of 3e fans badgering WotC, hounding Paizo. So, yes, there's plenty of it to go around.

Dude, you are right.

I am feel pretty confident stating that most of us "regulars" on the board have overreacted at one time or another. I am totally guilty of it too.

There's been a lot of mudslinging, but lately I've been trying to express a positive message about RPG gaming in general.

I enjoy my game. No one can tell me I'm having badwrongfun, but I also shouldn't infer or imply that others are doing it wrong if they aren't doing it my way, or they are playing a different RPG.

 

[Dannager]

Maybe, but I've seen WotC-fan apologists, who were critical of 3e fans badgering WotC, hounding Paizo. So, yes, there's plenty of it to go around.

I think there are two definitions of "hounding" going on here.

One involves 4e players who love Paizo products "hounding" them to make more of them for their favorite system.

The other involves PFRPG/3.X players "hounding" WotC over all their screw-ups, real and imagined, and basically acting in a manner that is much more hostile than friendly.

You can't really equate the two.

 

[crazy_cat]

You can't really equate the two.

Of course we can, this is the Intraweb!

For purely selfish reasons (I play PF not 4e) I don't want Paizo to do anything that would risk taking resources away from producing PF materials.

 

[BryonD]

I recall when WOTC announced 4e, and when they decided not to renew the Dragon/Dungeon license with Paizo (done well in advance, professionally and without animosity). I also recall when they were slow with the GSL, and had decided that it wouldn't be as open as the OGL.

There were scads of posts claiming that WOTC screwed their customers something fierce, that they fired their customers, that they OWED them something. And they got hounded and hounded.

Isn't the quote above an example of the pot calling the kettle black?

RPG fans are an interesting bunch...

To be clear, it is impossible to tell the pot from the kettle. I'm not even going to argue that root point.

But....

I don't think you make the case here.

WotC owns Dungeons and Dragons.
Paizo produced material for Dungeons and Dragons under a license with WotC.

WotC sat down and strategically choose to change their target demographic. There were a lot of existing fans who didn't fit the new target. These fans were effectively "fired". They took a product 100% under their control and by their own will made changes that alienated a lot of fans.

Paizo had a license taken away from them. And their options for continuing to support the gaming community became very limited as a result of choices made by WotC. This isn't said to point the finger of blame at WotC. But to point out that the circumstances controlling the two companies choices are completely different.

And even with that, I have NEVER claimed WotC "owes" me anything. They don't. I've been critical of their choices, but I've never questioned their authority to make their own choices, no matter how wrong-headed I may think them.

On the other hand, in this very thread, we have Paizo being accused of making "excuses". "Excuses!!". It is amazing to consider. And they are getting fingers pointed at them demanding why they have not picked up the phone to call WotC. Again, it is amazing and boggling to consider that someone thinks anything approaching an expectation, much less and obligation for this action exists. But Paizo made stuff for D&D under 3E so now people are talking like doing the same under 4E is both an obligation and a duty. Its absurd and I see no equivalence to this particular delusion.

Are there dozens of other charges that could be leveled at people dissatisfied with 4E? Sure. Does the innocence of one charge amongst dozens make it ok in the least? No. I'm not trying to claim that. There ain't no higher ground here. But this case doesn't make the point.

 

[BryonD]

One involves 4e players who love Paizo products "hounding" them to make more of them for their favorite system.

Are they obligated to call WotC?
Do they owe you any excuses?
Is it fair or reasonable to demand these things?


You are cherry picking complaints as well.
There have been plenty of barbs thrown at Paizo.
And many of the "fired" comments could just as easily be described as pleas to not fire us, but keep supporting the kind of game we love.

But to call those out as the only examples would be dishonest. And your selective characterization of the two sides in no more accurate.

 

[Betote]

I think there are two definitions of "hounding" going on here.

One involves 4e players who love Paizo products "hounding" them to make more of them for their favorite system.

The other involves PFRPG/3.X players "hounding" WotC over all their screw-ups, real and imagined, and basically acting in a manner that is much more hostile than friendly.

You can't really equate the two.

Yes, you can. It depends on how you choose to phrase them.

Words, they can be tricky

 

[BryonD]

nevermind