Yugoloth Lore

[Shade]

I wonder if a CR 13 Ultroloth was WotC's intention all along as they plan to possibly make Altraloths a generic yugoloth type (instead of making them unique 'loths) at CR 16 or 17 and generic Baernoloths at CR 20+ (as Planes of Conflict did when they made the generic baernoloth in the monster booklet hat came with the boxed set)? The Oinoloth could be the only unique one, which I hope is in the CR 30+...but they'll probably pop him at CR 27, like Asmodeus in FCI for the sake of the "little people" (and I do mean you silly non-epic people who can't see beyond level 20)

I honestly don't think they considered altraloths at all when assigning CRs. My guess is that the folks who updated the ultroloths in MMIII simply re-CRed them based on equivalent fiends using the existing MotP stats, then made slight alterations. I'd hope that a FCIII would set the ultroloths at CR20 and re-CR any others as necessary to fit in the proper hierarchy (similar to the other two FCs). As for baernaloths, I've become convinced that the best course of action is to simply not stat them at all. Worst case scenario, I'd hope they would only stat baerns individually (similar to archfiends), rather than as a generic type.

 

[Shemeska]

As for baernaloths, I've become convinced that the best course of action is to simply not stat them at all. Worst case scenario, I'd hope they would only stat baerns individually (similar to archfiends), rather than as a generic type.

That's my opinion. I don't see it as viable to have a generic Baernaloth. Among the few that are left, they're unique individuals and that sort of precludes presenting a base/generic version of their race. As awesome as Tony Di's picture of them in Planes of Conflict was, I wouldn't have presented stats, and just my personal preference, but I'd also avoid talking about them in the sense of using them as direct BBEGs to oppose PCs.

 

[Pants]

I honestly don't think they considered altraloths at all when assigning CRs. My guess is that the folks who updated the ultroloths in MMIII simply re-CRed them based on equivalent fiends using the existing MotP stats, then made slight alterations. I'd hope that a FCIII would set the ultroloths at CR20 and re-CR any others as necessary to fit in the proper hierarchy (similar to the other two FCs).

I agree. The MMIII 'updates' were hackjobs.

As for baernaloths, I've become convinced that the best course of action is to simply not stat them at all. Worst case scenario, I'd hope they would only stat baerns individually (similar to archfiends), rather than as a generic type.

That would work, though I fear that we'd probably just get a retread of the anemic 2e stats.

 

[BOZ]

I'm sure we did, but here's this off the top of my head. Likely isn't comprehensive, because I'm at work (oddly enough typing about 'loths just after having worked with live virus samples...).

thanks! yeah, that looked familiar, and was good to see again.

Note: I'm not including the FR pastiche 'loth lords like Inthracis (aka Anthraxus). I'm also not including named ultroloths.

we should probably get that together at some point in time, as well.

and hmm, FR needed a pastiche for Anthraxus? odd, since he appeared as himself in the Swords of the Iron Legion module!

 

[BOZ]

i also think it would be best not to stat the baernaloths (despite the fact that i have done so, heh). the stats in Planes of Conflict (seemling intentionally, IMO) do not match the flavor text, and there is a lot of mysterious stuff going on with them, so the less said the better, i think.

 

[Nightfall]

and hmm, FR needed a pastiche for Anthraxus? odd, since he appeared as himself in the Swords of the Iron Legion module!

Apparently so since that who showed up in the last book of the War of the Spider Queen. (another example of where FR authors frequently FUBAR written continuity in favor of some "story" reason.)

 

[BOZ]

oh, that's the novels... well, of course, the novels aren't always 100% in-game canon.

 

[Pants]

oh, that's the novels... well, of course, the novels aren't always 100% in-game canon.

Depending on the setting, of course.

*coughFRcough*

 

[Razz]

The thing is I run epic games, and there are people that do believe it or not, and so having an Altraloth or a Baernoloth as a BBEG is right up my campaign's alley. Just because a creature is said to be super-powerful doesn't mean WotC should restrict you from ever presenting them as the BBEG. If you wanted them as one, the stats should be provided as a "just in case" measure.

I know people complain about that being bad because then you turn such unique creatures into pickings for players. But after the 10th red great wyrm that aspires to be a deity or destroy the world, the players are looking for something interesting to tackle. Battling the minions in that yugoloth tower in Gehenna (Kin-something, forgot the name) and facing the General of Gehenna is something the "stars of the game" should accomplish if they want to or if the DM wants to.

Besides, why play heroic characters when you throw something in their face and say "they can never be stopped, because there's no stats for them, so I can't have you fight it anyway." SOMETHING has to stop them and in a D&D game that should fall to the players if they choose.

Sure, you can drag a campaign and have the players stop the machinations of Demogorgon for the umpteenth time and destroy like a million of his aspects...but then it gets to the point where the players go,"Dude, why don't we end this whole cat&mouse game and just kill the Prince of Demons himself?". And you can't blame them for eventually coming to a decision like that.

Luckily, we have Demogorgon stats just for that situation.

 

[BOZ]

there always the "make them more powerful than your party could possibly handle" option.