Yugoloths: Do They Have an Identity Beyond the Blood War?

[pemerton]

It has been a long time since I perused D3 (I played through it once too, but I don't remember the daemons coming up), and I don't have a copy, but it might be interesting for the discussion if anyone knows off the top of their head what the daemons are doing in that adventure and what their business is in the Underdark. It might shed some light on why Gygax, et al. felt it was desirable to introduce a third group of fiends into the game.

They're muscle and guards. Nothing more grandiose!

I think Shroomy is right. I don't know what Gygax had in mind, but as presented in D3 mezzodaemons and nycadaemons are not distinguishable from demons: they're evil beings from other planes that the drow seem to enjoy hanging out with.

In Gygax's DMG, they appear in the glossary, but are described simply as "monsters" (the glossary entry explains that you can ignore them if you don't have D3); in the descriptions for Iron Flasks; in the rules for holy water and for turning undead; in the rules for aerial combat (nycadaemons only); and in the rules for random encounters (dungeons and cities; in the latter case they are alternatives to devil and demon encounters). The closest thing to any flavour text for them in the DMG is the description (on p 51) of how nycadaemons

act much like flying battering rams, striking for 2-12 points of damage when they hit (or as much as 3-18 if they hit another flyer head-on, though this will also damage the nycadaemon 1-4 points) [who will] try to run . . . prey close to the ground and then close for a grapple. The wings will be used to batter and confuse and slow their fall, as [a nycadaemon] attempts to bring its opponent down to the ground where leverage and its full physical strength can be brought to bear.​

Type IV and Type VI demons are said (on the same page) to "try to bring their foes to the ground, much like nycadaemons" - so this closest thing to flavour text in the DMG does not identify anything distinctive about them!

 

[AtomicPope]

The fluff was there from the beginning when Mezzodaemons, and Nycadaemons first appeared in AD&D Fiend Folio (1981). I remember running 1st Edition games and not seeing them in any modules. I used Mezzodaemons a lot because they were powerful, tough, magical, and worked with demons and devils. The "daemons" from Fiend Folio were a different type and it was only a matter of time before taxonomical logic drew up a new category of fiends.

In my current campaign Yugoloths play a big role. The PCs are trekking about the multiverse in their Spelljamming Vessel artifact hunting to save the multiverse from chaos. When they search ruins the Yugoloth are bound by ancient pacts to serve as guardians. In bustling places the Yugoloths are employed as mercenaries and body guards. The fluff gives me lots of room as a DM to play. The new Canaloth has an ability "Dimensional Lock" that prevents teleportation. They make perfect guards as they cannot be surprised, have 120ft truesight, and have a ranged grappling attack that pulls the target.

Apart from the kewl fluff that gives me a lot of room to include powerful and versatile fiends in my campaign Yugoloths are VERY durable and deadly enemies in 5e, just like in 1e, with a lot of synergy. Mezzoloth are low CR but with Cloudkill and Blindsight they work well with more powerful Yugoloth who can cast Darkness at will. The new Yugoloth us even more options for tactical encounters. The Yaganoloth has an ability "battlefield cunning" where he can command other Yugoloth to make a basic attack. Since the Yaganoloth can cast Darkness at will that gives us lots of attacks with advantage allowing lower CR Mezzoloth to be threatening to higher level PCs. The basic claw attack of Nycaloth causes bleed. I'll be using this in an encounter very soon

 

[TheCosmicKid]

Slaadi don't exist in pathfinder.

I can't say I fault Paizo for that (though I am certain that it was an OGL issue rather than a creative decision), but surely the role of "spreading chaos" remains the province of whatever CN outsiders they came up with to to replace them?

 

[Hexmage-EN]

I can't say I fault Paizo for that (though I am certain that it was an OGL issue rather than a creative decision), but surely the role of "spreading chaos" remains the province of whatever CN outsiders they came up with to to replace them?

That would be the proteans, which are vaguely serpentine looking creatures. Still not exactly what I would imagine as beings of incarnate chaos, though.

At least in 5E the slaadi look the way they do because of Primus imposing a degree of law on them (Primus seems to be getting a bit more love in 5E, btw).

 

[steeldragons]

I thought "the Blood War" was a 3.5 or 4e fabrication. I don't remember ever hearing the term or about it from the AD&D days.

Devils, Demons, and Daemons in 1e were simply embodiments of their respective flavor [Lawful/Neutral/Chaotic] of evil. Though Daemons as a mercenary kind of fighters/traders/double-dealers between and/or for both devils and demons has been a niche of theirs from the get go.

 

[SirGrotius]

Funny, I've been enjoying MToF a lot today, and the first question that popped into my head was who are these Yugoloths and what shall we do with them?

 

[Tales and Chronicles]

I thought "the Blood War" was a 3.5 or 4e fabrication. I don't remember ever hearing the term or about it from the AD&D days.

Devils, Demons, and Daemons in 1e were simply embodiments of their respective flavor [Lawful/Neutral/Chaotic] of evil. Though Daemons as a mercenary kind of fighters/traders/double-dealers between and/or for both devils and demons has been a niche of theirs from the get go.

I'm not even sure there's Blood War going on in 4e. IIRC, in the Dawn War cosmology, the Demons were originally the Angels/Devils (Angels served good Gods, Devil served evil Gods but were still lawful servants of divine dominions in the Astral Sea) of Tharizdun that fell in the when the other gods decided to throw Tharizdun's Dominion at the bottom of the Elemental Chaos, thus creating the endless Abysses. That's why in 4e Demons are considered Elemental creatures and Angels/Devils were Immortals. Since there's no easy way to travel from the Astral Sea to the Elemental Chaos, I doubt there was an open war between the two ''races'' in 4. But that's from memories and some of that may be homebrew stuff I'm mixing.

 

[Hriston]

They're muscle and guards. Nothing more grandiose!

I think Shroomy is right. I don't know what Gygax had in mind, but as presented in D3 mezzodaemons and nycadaemons are not distinguishable from demons: they're evil beings from other planes that the drow seem to enjoy hanging out with.

I had a look at D3. It has a few things to say about daemons in the entries for new monsters at the end of the module.

About Mezzodaemons:

They freely associate with night hags and demons, and are not adverse to devils, although they find their strict regulations very tiresome. Mezzodaemons roam the astral and ethereal planes at times, and it's not too difficult to summon them to the Prime Material Plane, as they enjoy wreaking havoc here, and are willing to associate with evil humans and the like if the price is right and their "superior" position is generally recognized.​

And about Nycadaemons:

Nycadaemons are avoided by all lesser creatures - night hags, mezzodaemons, lesser and greater devils, and most demons - for the race is totally wicked and domineering, caring not who or what they enslave or exploit, but always acting in an intelligent and carefully calculated manner aimed at maximizing personal power and safety. Thus, these creatures will cooperate with other evil beings and races whenever mutual actions are likely to prove beneficial to themselves.​

So they dislike rules and any other limitations on their ability to ruthlessly pursue their own self-interest. They sound pretty much like the embodiment of NE.

 

[Mouseferatu]

The Blood War is a 2E creation, and a massive aspect of Planescape. I leave it as an exercise for the individual as to whether that was a good or bad thing.

 

[Demetrios1453]

I thought "the Blood War" was a 3.5 or 4e fabrication. I don't remember ever hearing the term or about it from the AD&D days.

The Blood War was a 2e invention. It definitely played a big role in the 2e Planescape line.