ZEITGEIST Player Primer Handout

[RangerWickett]

Well, I've done I suppose the majority of the brainstorming and development, but talking with Russ and a few others (my own players, folks who either playtested, and those who'll be writing adventures) has sparked some nice ideas.

It all kind of blends together at this point, but I remember early on in our conversations about the idea, Russ suggested working in naval encounters so we could give the PCs a sort of "base of operations" in the form of a ship. We figured it'd work better than a traditional stronghold because the PCs can take it with them on their adventures. I can't wait to deploy some of the higher level naval scenes.

(And I really hope the naval combat rules I've written will work well.)

 

[jonesy]

It won't make me buy it because fish aren't capable of dancing the tango.

Better?

Pretty good. And it sounds original too.

 

[Morrus]

I'm curious, @RangerWickett , did you create all the backstory or was Morrus involved too?

Actually, I wrote it all and then psychically projected it into his mind to make him think it was all his idea.

Thinking about it, I should have projected the idea that he wanted to come to my house and cook me a giant steak. Darnit!

 

[Marius Delphus]

Maybe you did, but the commute was too intimidating.

 

[RangerWickett]

Bah, from your previous GenCon experience complaining about a steak 'the size of your head,' I don't think you'd want an American cooking for you.

But if you make it to the con this year, I'll buy you a steak. (Or, failing that, a Steak & Shake hamburger.)

 

[RangerWickett]

Ehhhhh... I dunno. At first glance, it looks like just because you can make a Pathfinder version, doesn't necessarily mean you should. It sounds like it changes too many fundamental assumptions about the way the world works compared to most PF games/settings.

Sure, but Dark Sun and Planescape also changed a lot from the way most 2nd edition D&D settings worked. Hell, PF and 4e's "assumed settings" are very similar. In some ways, I think the fact that ZEITGEIST's setting is different from both makes it easier for us to have versions for both games.

Ultimately, the setting and adventures won't interest everyone, but I don't think the game system will be a big hurdle.

 

[Dice4Hire]

oops, wrong tab

 

[Kvantum]

Sure, but Dark Sun and Planescape also changed a lot from the way most 2nd edition D&D settings worked. Hell, PF and 4e's "assumed settings" are very similar. In some ways, I think the fact that ZEITGEIST's setting is different from both makes it easier for us to have versions for both games.

Ultimately, the setting and adventures won't interest everyone, but I don't think the game system will be a big hurdle.

Ryan, Dark Sun and Planescape are my two most favorite settings... and yet, still, somehow this just feels too weird for me. I guess I might say it feels too much like what it is: something developed with 4e's assumptions in mind, and then merely back-ported to Pathfinder compatibility.

Actually, that's it, I think. It's the same "well, we never intended to really support this but we'll try to shoehorn it in" that you get in PC conversions of console games. It was intended for one game's assumptions and it just kind of seems "off" from another game's general POV. The tieflings that are really weird compared to Pathfinder tieflings but are perfectly in keeping with 4e, the "these really aren't 4e devas, we swear, no really, they're just weird aasimar, trust us!" thing, it all just... well, it seems to incorporate in it the things I really didn't like about the changes to the outer planes in 4e, part of my whole reason for caring about the Edition Wars in the first place.

It may end up working as a whole, it really might, and I'll definitely be keeping track of ZEITGEIST's progress, but right now it just feels like nothing more than a port from its intended system to try and grab some extra money from fans of another set of mechanics.

 

[RangerWickett]

but right now it just feels like nothing more than a port from its intended system to try and grab some extra money from fans of another set of mechanics.

To be honest, that's close, but it's more like "a port to try and offer what we think will be a really fun adventure to gamers who would have missed out if we only stuck with one system."

We came up with the campaign setting and plot first, and then I took the advice of Mark Rosewater, the lead designer for Magic: the Gathering. He says that restrictions breed creativity. If you can do whatever you want, you'll tend to do the same things. But if someone tells you, "You have to fit in these races, because players like them," it encourages you to do something creative with them.

I felt the flavor for tieflings and devas in 4e as written was kind of bland, but we wanted to make sure they weren't just squeezed in as a 'bonus PC race,' so we tried to do something with them that is very critical to the setting. Now the story element we devised defines them much more than just their 4e-derived powers.

(I've done something similar with the setting's cosmology, which is much closer to Eberron's than to 4e's default.)

I know some people feel strongly that 4e isn't the game they want to play. But please don't let that poison the well for everything tangentially related to 4e. Like you said, people can keep an eye on what we're doing, and decide whether it looks like it would be a fun adventure. I personally think you'll like it.

 

[Kvantum]

(I've done something similar with the setting's cosmology, which is much closer to Eberron's than to 4e's default.)

Not helping the cause here, Ryan. Still, there was enough I liked out of WotBS to keep an eye on ZEITGEIST, however weird the setting may feel to this Great Wheel/Pathfinder fan.