Castle Greyhawk/Zagyg

[TerraDave]

Grodog vs. Grognard

I know that each attempts to incorporate the various dribs and drabs that have trickled out over the years on the the original castle dungeon.

But what are the main differences? Or for that matter similarities?

The grognard one seems to be hugish, and have a good cartogropher...anything else?

 

[grodog]

Grodog vs. Grognard

I know that each attempts to incorporate the various dribs and drabs that have trickled out over the years on the the original castle dungeon. But what are the main differences? Or for that matter similarities?

Main similarities: interest in the original GH castle and campaign materials

Main differences:
- Joe's regularly working on his Castle in earnest vs. my catch-as-catch-can efforts
- Joe gives you encounter keys, not just maps
- Joe's got some really nice computer rendered maps by jaerdaph
- CotMA is based on Castle Zagyg: Upper Works; grodog's isn't

I see our efforts as largely compatible, in the sense that you could easily add and subtract different levels from our versions (or from other published mega-dungeons) into the other dungeon without too much difficulty (assuming of course that you were fine with keying my level maps on your own).

@ Joe: what stands out to you as distinctions in our approaches to the castle?

 

[Thulcondar]

Main similarities: interest in the original GH castle and campaign materials

Main differences:
- Joe's regularly working on his Castle in earnest vs. my catch-as-catch-can efforts
- Joe gives you encounter keys, not just maps
- Joe's got some really nice computer rendered maps by jaerdaph
- CotMA is based on Castle Zagyg: Upper Works; grodog's isn't

I see our efforts as largely compatible, in the sense that you could easily add and subtract different levels from our versions (or from other published mega-dungeons) into the other dungeon without too much difficulty (assuming of course that you were fine with keying my level maps on your own).

@ Joe: what stands out to you as distinctions in our approaches to the castle?

Well truth to tell, I've been using your compilations of Greyhawkiana as a guide for my own efforts (along with my own Greyhawk Lore project and other sources, of course). So from that perspective, they're both along similar lines as expressions of what we know about the original.

I wouldn't say that Castle of the Mad Archmage is "based on" CZ:UW. It's definitely compatible, and was borne of my frustration that it appears that the series won't be continued, but I consider it to be based on the surviving hints, accounts, and details that have been mentioned over the years by Gygax, Kuntz, and others involved in the original campaign.

CotMA is definitely intended to be a complete module eventually (right now I'm back to my level-a-month schedule), that a DM can sit down with and run as-is. And, naturally as part of that process, make it their own. If that means taking it as it's written and going with it, fine; if that means plugging in levels from Maure Castle, or Grodog's levels, or even something home-brewed, that would certainly be in the spirit of the work.

Joe / Greyhawk Grognard
Greyhawk Grognard

 

[TerraDave]

thanks for the quick replies!


though this mean I will have to spend so many hours more investigating further

 

[Oni]

The Greyhawk Grognard Joe Bloch has been designing his version of this famous mega-dungeon called The Castle of the Mad Archmage based on comments made by Gary et al. over the years about the original. It conveniently picks up at Level 2 where Troll Lord Games' Castle Zagyg: The Upper Works left off. I've been helping Joe out with the maps.

If you don't have a copy of Upper Works (or don't want to procure an OOP copy for mega bucks $$$), Rath's The Mad Demigod's Castle presents Level 1: The Storage Rooms is the perfect substitute and conveniently links up to Level 2 of The Castle of the Mad Archmage. I gave Rath a hand with the maps on that one too.

You can check out some poster size versions of the maps here:

http://www.enworld.org/forum/art-ga...ps-dungeons-floorplans-etc-2.html#post4785369

The maps are spectacular.

 

[jaerdaph]

The maps are spectacular.

Thanks Oni (and everyone)!

The praise and credit for the design should go to Joe Bloch (Thulcondar) though - I'm just working from his extensive and impressive hand drawn maps. He's the chief architect, I'm just the draftsman.

Speaking of which, I really need to get my @$$ in gear working on level 8...

 

[grodog]

Thanks Oni (and everyone)!

The praise and credit for the design should go to Joe Bloch (Thulcondar) though - I'm just working from his extensive and impressive hand drawn maps. He's the chief architect, I'm just the draftsman.

But that doesn't diminish the quality of your work, or your willingness to publish it in blue and Undermountain formats, for example!

Speaking of which, I really need to get my @$$ in gear working on level 8...

*cracks the whip!*

 

[Philotomy Jurament]

What do the colors on the undermountain format indicate?

 

[jdrakeh]

You know what Gary's Greyhawk legacy is? Do it yourself and make it your own. Its all he ever wanted us all to do with the game he created, let alone adventures.

So do it yourself, feel right about it, and most of all, have fun doing it.

That is Gary's Castle Greyhawk.

You and I rarely see eye to eye, but I agree with you 100% here. I think that "Do it yourself!" was the real essence of D&D at one point in time and that it got lost somewhere along the way.

 

[Philotomy Jurament]

You and I rarely see eye to eye, but I agree with you 100% here.

Yeah, I agree, too. I like a make the game your own approach (but I still like to honor the traditions and approaches that help define D&D). That's probably why I find the idea of using stuff like known facts about Castle Greyhawk (e.g. grodog's research) and then making my own version that incorporates some of those elements more appealing than using a published version. (Although I still like looking at those, too, as I find them inspiring and full of ideas to steal.)