Projectile Weapons and Ammo

Scharlata · Feb 14, 2005

Hi!

Maybe this (3.5) question has been asked many times, but I'd like to hear the answer anyway...

The DMG states that only the higher enhancement bonus from either the projectile weapon or the ammunition fired by that weapon counts for determining the attack bonus. It states also that the ammunition fired is treated as a magic weapeon for the purpose of determining overcoming damage reduction. It states further that the projectile weapon confers its special abilities to the ammunition. It, IMO, does not say that the actual enhancement bonus (like +1) of magic projectile weapon is counted to determine the total damage dealt by the ammunition.

For example:
My character got herself a +1 longbow of shock. She fires an arrow without an enhancement bonus. The arrow would deal 1d8 + 1d6 electricity damage. Or would it deal 1d8+1 + 1d6 electricity damage?

If a magic projectile weapon confers even its actual enhancement bonus to the ammunition, why would anyone craft magic ammunition ever? Coolness? Habit? Affordability? Why?

Kind regards

Legildur · Feb 14, 2005

Scharlata said:
If a magic projectile weapon confers even its actual enhancement bonus to the ammunition, why would anyone craft magic ammunition ever? Coolness? Habit? Affordability? Why?

Because a +1 shocking keen holy (pick your own enhancement combination) composite long bow stacks nicely with Greater Magic Weaponed arrows. With +3 arrows, you end up with 1d8+3+1d6 (electricity) +2d6 against evil opponents.

Mekabar · Feb 14, 2005

That's what the SRD states on that matter:

Ranged Weapons and Ammunition: The enhancement bonus from a ranged weapon does not stack with the enhancement bonus from ammunition. Only the higher of the two enhancement bonuses applies.

So yes, per the RAW magical ammunition is pretty useless indeed. There is absolutely no reason to enchant arrows, which are destroyed when used, if you can have the same effect by enchanting your bow, which lasts indefinitely.

Our house-rule to solve this absurdity is: Enhancement bonuses do stack, but damage-enhancing effects have to be put on the ammunition. So you need flaming arrows and can't have a flaming longbow (but a keen one is possible for instance).

Tatsukun · Feb 14, 2005

Mekabar said:
That's what the SRD states on that matter:

So yes, per the RAW magical ammunition is pretty useless indeed. There is absolutely no reason to enchant arrows, which are destroyed when used, if you can have the same effect by enchanting your bow, which lasts indefinitely.

Our house-rule to solve this absurdity is: Enhancement bonuses do stack, but damage-enhancing effects have to be put on the ammunition. So you need flaming arrows and can't have a flaming longbow (but a keen one is possible for instance).

So, in that system, I can shoot +2 Flaming arrows with a +1 Bow and a +1 Flaming arrow? That's a total of 8,000 Gp, whereas the fighter's +2 flaming sword cost him 18,000 Gp. ??

Wow, I want to be an archer !

-Tatsu

FireLance · Feb 14, 2005

Scharlata said:
If a magic projectile weapon confers even its actual enhancement bonus to the ammunition, why would anyone craft magic ammunition ever? Coolness? Habit? Affordability? Why?

Affordability, flexibility and you can stack weapon qualities.

A +3 bow and 50 +1 holy arrows cost less than a +3 holy bow.

A +1 dragon bane bow can only be used by one character at a time. 50 +1 dragon bane arrows can be split up among all the party archers.

You can have a +5 holy, speed bow and fire +1 keen, brilliant energy, axiomatic, flaming, shock arrows.

Mekabar · Feb 14, 2005

Tatsukun said:
So, in that system, I can shoot +2 Flaming arrows with a +1 Bow and a +1 Flaming arrow? That's a total of 8,000 Gp, whereas the fighter's +2 flaming sword cost him 18,000 Gp. ??

No it would be 10000 Gp and 8000 Gp of it would be spent on 50 flaming arrows. And that's the point: A Fighter's Flaming Greatsword will last indefinitely, while the arrows will be used up quite soon. More firepower comes at a price in this system.

Tatsukun · Feb 14, 2005

Right, forgot about the Bow.

So, in your system, you can cast Greater magic weapon on both the bow and the arrows ?
That was one of the things that really broke 3.0 archers.

I guess the enchantment stacking thing doesn't really bother me, I would not be wasting 160Gp arrows if I could help it. I mean, one arrow is what, a lifetime of income for a farmer?

It's really just GMW that breaks it, right? I didn't play a 3.0 archer much, so I don't really remember is there was something else broken.

-Tatsu

Mekabar · Feb 14, 2005

I never had GMW abuse issuses in my party up until now, but if this ever poses a problem it should be no problem to exclude GMW from stacking with itself.

azmodean · Feb 14, 2005

I've got two words for you, bane arrows.

You can get a collection of +1 bane arrows with different targets, and you're ready for anything you run into.

Also it is extremely valuable to be able to have different enhancements for your primary weapon.

You enchant the bow with generic stuff, like keen, distance, plusses, perhaps holy or axiomatic if you fight a lot of evil or chaotic stuff, and you get an assortment of arrows with specialized enchantments on them to help deal with different challenges.

Also your DM may allow a quiver of greater magic arrows that can enchant up to 50 arrows to +3 or so 1 - 3 times a day, and you get a +1 bow with many special enhancements. Or you could take levels in arcane archer.

Scharlata · Feb 14, 2005

FireLance said:
[...] 50 +1 dragon bane arrows can be split up among all the party archers.[...]

azmodean said:
[...] You can get a collection of +1 bane arrows with different targets, and you're ready for anything you run into. Also it is extremely valuable to be able to have different enhancements for your primary weapon.[...]

Hi!

OK! That's a very convincing PoV. But,... it would be an absolute waste of gold to make arrows with more than the minimum enhancement bonus of +1 required to get the special ability onto the arrows. I.e., you would craft +1 arrows of bane vs. X, but you would NOT craft +2 arrows of bane vs. X? Right!?

Kind regards

Projectile Weapons and Ammo

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