Close Wounds (2nd) better than Revivify (5th)?

aboyd · Jun 12, 2008

I'm looking for options for my gimped halfling cleric, which I posted about in another thread. One of the options is to go full into combat medic mode. I was looking at Close Wounds and thinking of it as a poor man's Revivify (if you act fast, no need to Raise Dead and/or lose a level). However, the more I looked at it, the more it seemed superior.

Consider this. Close Wounds is 2nd level. A low-level caster could have a couple/few of them. It's an immediate action, so you can use it even if it's not your turn, and if it IS your turn, you can cast a second spell afterwards. It doesn't provoke AOO, and it doesn't require touch (it can be cast at range, no miss chance).

Revivify is 5th level. It's a standard action, so you endure AOO & cannot cast another spell afterward. It requires touch, and it costs a 1000 gp gem each time.

They both appear to do the same thing. Revivify brings someone back from the dead and sets them at -1 HP, stable. Close Wounds says "If you cast this spell immediately after the subject takes damage, it effectively prevents the damage."

Can someone outline a scenario where my cleric might want Revivify instead of Close Wounds?

moritheil · Jun 12, 2008

aboyd said:
Can someone outline a scenario where my cleric might want Revivify instead of Close Wounds?

I'm not familiar with Close Wounds, but given that it's a 2nd level spell, I'm guessing there's a limit to the amount of damage it negates.

If the death is:
1. Due to an amount or type of damage that Close Wounds will not mitigate enough to avoid death (Vile damage)
2. Due to something other than damage

In either of those cases, Close Wounds is useless.

GilaMonster · Jun 12, 2008

Close wounds only heals a max of 9 points. (1d4 + 1/caster level, max +5). ie it won't prevent the death of someone reduced to less that -18 hp

krupintupple · Jun 12, 2008

still, i know a diamond in the rough when i see one. up until about 7th level, most people can't afford raise dead, nor are they going to be fried by death effects and singed for 300 points of fire damage.

close wounds might be perfect for low level adventurers, maybe keep a scroll handy?

moritheil · Jun 12, 2008

krupintupple said:
still, i know a diamond in the rough when i see one. up until about 7th level, most people can't afford raise dead, nor are they going to be fried by death effects and singed for 300 points of fire damage.

Well, certainly not 300, but if the character was already low on hit points and got critted by an ogre or hit by a raging barbarian, that could easily be too much damage for Close Wounds to handle.

Don't forget that at 7th character level, 4th level save-or-dies start!

close wounds might be perfect for low level adventurers, maybe keep a scroll handy?

[D]Good idea.[/D] Wait, I forgot about all scrolls needing a standard action. Bad idea. Good call, Hyp.

Hypersmurf · Jun 12, 2008

krupintupple said:
close wounds might be perfect for low level adventurers, maybe keep a scroll handy?

Close Wounds is an immediate action spell; it effectively prevents someone from dying by curing the damage as it is being dealt, so that the damage that takes them to -10 and the healing that brings them back above -10 happen at the same time. So the person never actually hits -10, and they never actually die.

If you put it on a scroll, it requires at least a standard action to activate, per Spell Compendium. So you can't use it during the attack, only after... and by the time you cast Close Wounds, the person is actually dead.

-Hyp.

krupintupple · Jun 13, 2008

Hypersmurf said:
...So you can't use it during the attack, only after... and by the time you cast Close Wounds, the person is actually dead.

-Hyp.

curses! foiled again by a persistent lack of sleep. i should've spotted that. thanks, fastest of the smurfenfolks!

aboyd · Jun 13, 2008

GilaMonster said:
Close wounds only heals a max of 9 points. (1d4 + 1/caster level, max +5). ie it won't prevent the death of someone reduced to less that -18 hp

Ah. The problem I had was that I was reading it wrong. I read it as 2 separate effects (and I blame the SC, as it is written that way). It has the first effect, which can be used whenever:

Spell Compendium said:
This spell cures 1d4 points of damage +1 point per caster level (maximum 5).

Then in a separate paragraph it describes the second way the spell can work, which occurs only if a special condition is met (immediately upon someone dying):

Spell Compendium said:
If you cast this spell immediately after the subject takes damage, it effectively prevents the damage.

In other words, in that special case, it unrolls ALL the damage. A 100 HP blast took you to -90? OK, Close Wounds undid it.

This appears to be a silly reading of it now that I apply some game-balance logic to it. My initial read assumed the most helpful outcome. My rewrite of the text might be like this:

This spell cures 1d4 points of damage +1 point per caster level (maximum 5). If you cast this spell immediately after the subject takes damage, it effectively prevents a portion of the damage indicated by your roll.

As a followup question, if TWO clerics both react and cast Close Wounds at the same time, would it be possible that together they are more powerful (would the effects stack)? Could you bring back someone who was as low as -27 (max rolls by both cures = 18 total, bringing the PC to -9 & stable)?

Jeff Wilder · Jun 13, 2008

Note that close wounds is another example of why Augment Healing is so good ... that extra 4 points of healing will often make a huge difference.

And I can't see any reason that two close wounds spells wouldn't "stack." It's just healing, albeit quicker than usual.

Tashalar · Jun 13, 2008

Agreed - if two clerics use immediate actions to cast close wounds on the same person/creature, that works just fine. As long as they roll high enough to get the hp above -10.

Close Wounds (2nd) better than Revivify (5th)?

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