D&D 5E Is Anyone Unhappy About Non-LG Paladins?

Are you unhappy about non-LG paladins?

  • No; in fact, it's a major selling point!

    Votes: 98 20.5%
  • No; in fact, it's a minor selling point.

    Votes: 152 31.7%
  • I don't care either way.

    Votes: 115 24.0%
  • Yes; and it's a minor strike against 5e.

    Votes: 78 16.3%
  • Yes; and it's a major strike against 5e!

    Votes: 18 3.8%
  • My paladin uses a Motorola phone.

    Votes: 18 3.8%

Wow, the irony is juicy with this one.

You do realize the show you're 'quoting' is full of moral quandary and the specific quote was one of the few times the crew got to be purely heroic? Right?

Let me guess, you're the sort of guy who likes to explain jokes and memes at parties, right? ;)

For better or worse, it now actually tends to mean actual Big Damn Heroes, but it's that sweet hint of irony that makes it so fun to say.
 

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Hussar

Legend
Regarding "Plethora of Paladins", it has been a long time since I have read it. However, if I recall correctly, it, like most 1e Dragon articles, was not official material.

That would be mistaken. From that era all Dragon material was official. Cf. any discussion regarding Planescape fluff.
 

Imaro

Legend
That would be mistaken. From that era all Dragon material was official. Cf. any discussion regarding Planescape fluff.

Which era? Planescape didn't start until 2nd edition... and I think he's speaking of Dragon magazine during 1st edition...
 



Bluenose

Adventurer
So, the LE Paladin (Illrigger) is an assassin by trade, charged with foiling the works of good aligned churches and creating a network of power through guile and stealth that venerates his diety. Different from a cleric since clerics of a LE god would be more likely to use magic than sneak into someone's room and strangle them. More like a ninja really.

Which considering there were various ways to make an Assassin, seems an odd choice. While it might be regarded as needlessly symmetrical, there's a case for the Evil-Paladin being another Knight of the Church in the way the Good-Paladin is - or for that matter the Green Knight Nature-Paladin. The open, obvious, stand-up-and-fight champion who everybody recognises. Someone sneaking around doing the work of the faith sneakily is an assassin, a ranger, or something like a 4e Avenger if we're looking for a Good version.
 

Tequila Sunrise

Adventurer
Oh no, this was written ages ago. Dragon 106 according to my Google Fu, which would be Feb 1986. It's not like the idea of different alignment paladins is something new with 4e. Good grief no. Paladin's for every alignment is darn near as old as paladins themselves. Heck, it's an idea that not only can vote and drink, it's married and has kids now.

/edit

I just took a few minutes to read through the article. Funny how the descriptions of the paladins in that article pretty much mirror exactly what TQ has been saying in his blog. The idea that a paladin isn't defined specifically by a LG code, but, simply by a code of conduct that makes sense for whatever alignment that paladin follows. So, the LE Paladin (Illrigger) is an assassin by trade, charged with foiling the works of good aligned churches and creating a network of power through guile and stealth that venerates his diety. Different from a cleric since clerics of a LE god would be more likely to use magic than sneak into someone's room and strangle them. More like a ninja really.

I would post the link to the article but since I am new it won't let me. If you Google "A Plethora of Paladins" it will bring up the info. Sorry.
Didn't think to google it -- didn't realize in fact that people actually copy-paste mag articles on the net!

Anyhow, wow, what a blast from the past! My gaming life only goes back to 2e, but A Plethora of Paladins sure has a similar vibe to the 2e stuff I remember -- the implications that LG is the goodest good and CE is the evilest evil, the silly-players-these-paladins-are-for-DMs injunction, the stat minimums, the percentile strength, and the attacks-per-round tables. (To this day, I still don't know if 3/2 means a 2-1-2 or a 1-2-1 routine!)

At the same time, the tables are incomplete; obviously under the assumption that the reader could work out the details himself. But to me it's rather arcane -- the article notes when each paladin variant gains spell ability, but doesn't specify what that ability is. Does the paladin suddenly gain the spell ability of a cleric of equivalent level, or possibly the spell ability of a 1st level cleric, or something else? And what's with the oil allowances? Was burning oil a big thing in 1e?

Anyhow, Cristopher Wood, one of the guys who copy-pasted this article, made a comment that really struck a chord with me: "...the concept of paladins being more than cookie-cutter, armored up, Sir-Galahad-wannabes." (Edited for grammar.) I've been reading internet rants about 'cookie-cutter' builds for years, but I never realized how well the term applies to my feelings about the traditional D&D paladin. The traditional paladin isn't just a specific alignment -- it's a single slice of a specific alignment! Not saying there isn't wiggle room within the Code for personal characterization -- but it's hard to imagine anything more cookie-cutter! A straight-up pregen character with a pre-written personality is the only thing that comes to mind.
 

billd91

Not your screen monkey (he/him)
That would be mistaken. From that era all Dragon material was official. Cf. any discussion regarding Planescape fluff.

It's really kind of a pointless distinction. You weren't expected to add the stuff in Dragon to your game (it was all optional), nor could you expect that it was play tested. Official really just meant published in a magazine that occasionally had things to say about rule interpretations because it had a special connection to the source - TSR and then WotC - that other magazines like Different Worlds, White Dwarf, Shadis, or a host of fan 'zines did not have..
 

Lalato

Adventurer
I based a paper on water pollution on that article. Not the content, of course, but the style. Got an A, and won a writing contest... Also shook the mayor's hand as he handed me a plaque. :)
 

Lalato

Adventurer
I don't think the point is whether it is 100% official or not. The point is that this concept is old... And that people that rely on the "tradition" crutch don't have a leg to stand on. ;)
 

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