D&D 5E Let's list the "broken" spells

fuindordm said:

.So far the most overpowered spell that I've noticed is Eldritch Blast. Did warlocks really need an attack cantrip that much better than the other cantrips?

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Eldritch Blast isn't much better than Fire Bolt on its own, and any caster can pick it up via Spell Sniper or Magic Initiate (though it's most useful for Sorcerer or Bard since it will use Cha).

Really it's the Invocations that make it strong, and those are directly balanced against the warlock getting fewer spell slots. For example, compare a warlock and a wizard at 8th level.

Say that a typical adventuring day has six combats of three rounds each, with two short rests. The wizard has 12 spell slots, plus up to four more from Arcane Recovery. The Warlock has 6 over the course of the day, with more constraints on when he can use them.

So when a warlock is out of spells and falling back to Eldritch Blast, the wizard is falling back to low-level spells. I think the fair comparison is Eldritch Blast vs. a spell a couple levels below your max (e.g. Scorching Ray at 8th level).

fuindordm said:

Slightly off-topic because I don't think they're broken, but I'm disappointed that the power word spells are still one standard action instead of usable as bonus actions. In AD&D they were all one-segment spells.

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They'd have made good candidates for bonus action spells with a somewhat reduced effect. That said, it'd only mean the mage could took a non-spell action like a disengage or a cantrip.

So far the most overpowered spell that I've noticed is Eldritch Blast. Did warlocks really need an attack cantrip that much better than the other cantrips?

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To be honest, I think Warlocks kinda do; it makes up for their highly restricted spell access. They'll need to use cantrips far more than any other caster. It also requires using their invocations to make it actually more effective than other cantrips, so it's not really overpowered, so much as able to be leveraged.

fuindordm said:

I love that spells like Clone, Imprisonment, and Simulacrum are still available in all their baroque glory.

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Clone's much more powerful than before: it stays ready indefinitely until you die. It's like the FR spell Stasis Clone.

Simulacrum is much less useful: you can only have one at a time, though the simulacrum is the same level as the original. (Anyone else remember that adventure in Dungeon with Azurax Silverhawk and umpteen of his simulacra?)

Imprisonment now has a casting time of 1 minute, whereas it was one action in 3.5E. This renders it rather less useful in action.

I forgot to say it but my suggestion in post 88 is pretty much stolen from the description of Witch Bolt.

Not sure if this has been mentioned yet but any thread about broken spells should probably include Animate Dead.

On its own, it's actually pretty lackluster; carting around 4 CR 1/4 skeletons in exchange for a 3rd level spell slot (level 5+) is pretty weak. The real trick is when you're a bit higher level and you can use EVERY ONE of your higher level spell slots to raise a not-insignificant army of skeletons (I think something like 96 at level 16?) which can rain down arrows on a target for the cost of a single bonus action. Combined with the "bounded" nature of 5.0 this is a pretty serious threat. (The big example being killing a CR 16 dragon in a single bonus action.)

More specifically, the reason Animate Dead is so tricky is because it allows you to "spend" multiple spell slots all at once. With enough prep time, you can "spend" nearly all of your spells in a single bonus action. It's not particularly efficient, but the sheer number of spell slots you can spend at once is what makes it an issue.

Contagion vs. Power Word Stun: Melee touch attack + damage each round to stun, BUT creatures get disadvantage on their save to stop the disease, which is pretty nice. PW Stun is a 100% chance to work on a valid target (150 HP or less) at range (60'), and then they get normal saves each round to remove. Regardless of how the DMG clarifies diseases, it's pretty clear from the spell description that the saves for Contagion work immediately, each round, and after 3 fails the disease lasts a week. It's like a death saving throw; it could take 3 rounds to shake off, or it could take 6. Either way they are stun-locked for at LEAST 3 rounds, probably more thanks to the disadvantage on the save, as long as you can damage them each round. Yeah, that's pretty amazing, and it will definitely work more consistently and on more targets than PW Stun, although the melee touch attack is the main thing to worry about (as opposed to it just works with PW Stun), but you're proficient as a caster, so it's not unreasonable to think you'll get them. Still, it's probably at least as good as PW Stun for 3 spell levels lower, which is pretty crazy.

Forcecage absolutely turns anything without serious ranged attacks into a pin cushion. It's reasonable to give 1/2 cover to anything inside, but it doesn't matter since it has no save and lasts 1 hour without concentration - auto-win against anything up to 20 feet on a side. Still, it's 7th level and as mentioned isn't quite as good against anything with a ranged attack, but there are still plenty of excellent targets. An adult red dragon is reduced to a breath attack and lair actions and nothing else, for example.

fuindordm said:

So far the most overpowered spell that I've noticed is Eldritch Blast. Did warlocks really need an attack cantrip that much better than the other cantrips?

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Yes, they did. A warlock only gets two spell slots until 11th+ level. They are extremely dependent upon their cantrips and other at-will abilities, far more so than any other spellcaster.

The number one most abusable spell seems to me to be True Polymorph, although many campaigns will never reach a position to use it (that said, I don't think this is a reason to dismiss broken high level spells. 3E and Pathfinder have conditioned us to the notion that high-level play is horribly broken and not worth trying; we don't want that to be the case with 5E).

I'd say they need to add three stipulations:
1. Only the creature-to-creature version can be made permanent (no "I hereby transform this house rat into a 10,000lb block of gold!").
2. Upon becoming permanent, a creature transformed by the spell loses all memory of its former life and becomes a complete, normal member of its new race, possibly even making up a fake "history" to explain its own existence. (Thus, transforming a companion into a powerful creature permanently means that a) they're not going to be all that willing to subject themselves to that and b) they may not be helpful when they get their new personality.).
3. The destination creature cannot have legendary abilities.

Another high level spell, Foresight, strikes me as exceedingly powerful. All day long advantage/disadvantage is kinda huge, especially cast on, say, a high level fighter.

I'm also a little disappointed that fireball is still a third level spell. There's a reason that it has always been every wizard's spell first pick on reaching 5th level - it's totally overpowered for 3rd. Its stayed there, though, for the reason that "it has always been 3rd level". Its especially problematic with 5E; bounded accuracy is fantastic and enables high level players to be threatened by large numbers of low level enemies. Fireball has always been an "I win" button in any mass combat situation, and having it still readily available in a cheap low-ish level spell slot can make these kinds of encounters pointless.

pemerton said:

What I don't get is that we could generalise this to all spells (as some games do, like, say, HeroWars/Quest). Fireball could just be "You create a fiery explosing 20' in diameter" and leave the GM to ajdudicate the effect of that on people caught in the blast, to decide who gets to make DEX/Acro checks to escape the blast, etc.

Presumably there is a reason that, in D&D, instead of a pure descriptor we actually give the fireball spell rules for damage, saving throws etc.

Whatever that reason is (and I'll leave it to others to work out exactly what it might be), why does it not also apply to Forcecage? Reverse Gravity? Etc.

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I agree. Just make fireball state is does "fire" damage and leave the rest for the DM to decide. It would make spell creation that much easier, and it would place martial ability and spells on the same playing field when it comes to ad hoc determination. But more than anything else there needs to be some base assumptions that make spells and mundane ability relative in regards to common factors like damage, range, area, close combat, line of sight, item creation/use/consumption, etc. It would be less likely to create spells that totally remove certain challenges from the game.

Wall of Force is a pretty amazing "shut you down" spell; it takes 1 opponent completely out of battle without a save. However it does require concentration, and whatever is in it is immune to you doing anything to it while it's in there, so it's not an auto-win - but it'd be a great move against the BBEG so you have time to take out all his minions... and then place, say, one or two tons of bricks above his head...

Mistwell said:

5) True Polymorph: Casting time is an issue (it's a ninth level spell - not the entire party can take the form of a dragon, unless some petty mortal humanoids are fine hanging out with an actual red dragon for days), and impact of the spell physically changing your mind to be the thing you changed into, like changing your mind into that of a red dragon.

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Casting time is 1 action. Unless you were referring to the fact that no one can cast more than 1 9th level spell (except wizards after a short rest) per day, I'm not sure what you meant there. Also the spell specifically says your game stats are changed but you retain your personality; no reason to think once you make yourself into a red dragon you won't still be a pretty awesome 17th level wizard as well. It's at least a reasonable interpretation of the non-lawyerese rules.

At least from the spell description, I think it's completely reasonable to think that any 17th level wizard could choose to be an adult red dragon from that point on without issue. Or better yet: make their sorcerer friend into one, since a red dragon's Int is only 16 but its Cha is 21 (hello respecing ability score boosts into feats...).