D&D 5E Social Contract Helping Other NPCs?

Zardnaar · Nov 10, 2014

Astrosicebear said:
The player is playing you all.

He knows the meta of the situation is that you will not ask him to change characters or leave the game table because he feels "character privilege" is in order... this absurd notion that playing asshat characters is protected under some gaming Constitution.

Handle it both above the board and on the table.

Above the board, tell him hes beings unreasonable and a jerk. This is a cooperative game, and if he doesnt want to help, or cooperate, then there are plenty of others who can fill his seat.

On the table, the characters would probably ditch him. Letting someone die (anyone can do a DC 10 Medicine check btw) is inexcusable, esp if he never tried. As PC's I would never let him touch me again. I would also in game say that he is not pulling his weight, and cut his share of loot to 10%, instead of whatever split it is now. If necessary pool the split and hire an npc cleric.

He can either work as a team, with the team, or be the loner he wants to be, alone.

As the DM, majority rules and common sense rules. I usually try not to side with my players right away and let them work things out, but if i sense some real frustrations or get approached by multiple PCs I will implement some heavy handed solutions. Perhaps the rogue skirting around gets ambushed by an unseen monster. Now HE needs to be saved... if the PCs come save him, it might sink it. If they dont, it might sink in more. Ive had PCs stand by and watch these horrible characters get mauled, kill the beast, and loot the fresh corpse. It usually works for that player.

Loots not really such a thing for out PCs. Most of it is still in party treasure if we want some $$ we just take it or pay it out on occasion. OFor example at level 10 I have 1250 gp, party treasure had 40k+ in it. I give most of my wealth to NPCs anyway. Well I am living the aristocratic lifestyle and supporting 2 others as well.

Booting him is not an option, real life friend of sorts and he gets on well with 2 of the others so that is 3/5 players. The other 2 tend to be effective enough though but have similar tendencies sometimes (well one of them anyway).

Its not like they go out of the way to screw people over just their idea of fun is a bit different from the other 3 players (casual vs hardcore players more or less). They are less experienced than 3 of us wh did play 3E and 4E while they did not play those editions much or play GURPs and other RPGs. Sometimes 1-2 of the others give up and we get some fatalities but that is part of the fun to the casual types.

BASHMAN · Nov 10, 2014

"I'm ***JUST*** playing my character!" -- immortal words spoken by the biggest jerks ever in the history of RPGs...

Joe Liker · Nov 10, 2014

Zardnaar said:
Earier we talked it out and had primary healer (Rogue, secondary heraler (Druid), and tertiary healer (me) but I am being forced to vecome the primary healer (AFK rogue), the Druid is in animal form or KOed half the time (or dead) and my bard is out of spells as I have to use crap healing spells for the most part on top of spells to stay alive on top of spells I try to buff the party with.

You have both a druid and a bard in the party, but you're complaining that the rogue let someone die? Seriously?

If this is truly the way you guys set up the party, you have no business passing judgment on the rogue's player. It sounds like you are all to blame for this predicament. Do you also have a fighter who's in charge of picking locks?

Sorry for the snark, but I'm finding all of this very hard to swallow.

Zardnaar · Nov 10, 2014

Joe Liker said:
You have both a druid and a bard in the party, but you're complaining that the rogue let someone die? Seriously?

If this is truly the way you guys set up the party, you have no business passing judgment on the rogue's player. It sounds like you are all to blame for this predicament. Do you also have a fighter who's in charge of picking locks?

Sorry for the snark, but I'm finding all of this very hard to swallow.

It was the initiative order. It was the Druid that was KOed, I was the bard busy trying to keep the remaining baddies off the downed fighter and druid. I was the last one left standing on the front line (with the least amount of hit points) The Rogue is the one who usually stabilises PCs as bonus actions. I used my bonus action to shield bash a NPC down and kill him and I was out of range for healing word anyway. If I had done that someone else would have like died and the Druid bleed out before my turn anyway (she rolled a 1). The Rogue was ahead in the initiative order. On my turn the Druid had failed one save and both the Druid and Fighter were bleeding out. I think I was also more or less out of spells. We would not have got in that situation if the Rogue was not on the other side of the map sniping away and taking the odd hit for us anyway. It was a fight late in the day and I was tanked as I had to use aura of vitality and healing words earlier in the day (due to similar conditions taking more damage than we had to).

I think the Rogue also has a healing magic item (2d8+3 20'radius 2/day) he can use as a bonus action as well, we gave it to him as he was the healer. Hard to use at 60 odd feet.

And yes we do have a fighter picking locks in the other party. The wizard had plenty of spells left as he did not have to use them on healing.

Joe Liker · Nov 10, 2014

That sounds like a tough fight, combined with some unlucky rolls.

Still, I don't think the rogue is any more to blame for the death than anyone else. Moving forward, it might be wise just to accept that the rogue is no more reliable as a healer than the always-bear-shaped druid. While he may have inexplicably agreed to that role, it's clear to everyone that his heart's not in it, so there not much to be gained by holding him to it.

I'm DMing a group where the bard is the only one with healing magic, but he really hates using his spell slots for it. I'm hoping this will improve as he gains more slots. In the meantime, the party is being very cautious about when they choose to fight because they are all very aware that the magic might not be there if one of them goes down.

Zardnaar · Nov 10, 2014

Joe Liker said:
That sounds like a tough fight, combined with some unlucky rolls.

Still, I don't think the rogue is any more to blame for the death than anyone else. Moving forward, it might be wise just to accept that the rogue is no more reliable as a healer than the always-bear-shaped druid. While he may have inexplicably agreed to that role, it's clear to everyone that his heart's not in it, so there not much to be gained by holding him to it.

I'm DMing a group where the bard is the only one with healing magic, but he really hates using his spell slots for it. I'm hoping this will improve as he gains more slots. In the meantime, the party is being very cautious about when they choose to fight because they are all very aware that the magic might not be there if one of them goes down.

THing is it doesn't have to be a tough fight. THe Rogue could take some hits for example which spreads out damage and even if he gets focused on he can halve some of the damage and we can always heal him after it. Throw in the fact I am more than willing to give him bardic dice to get his AC up and use aura of vitality on him after a fight.

I think it is because he thinks he has to stay alive at all costs due to having the healer feat and he can stabilize us as a bonus action. We are getting KOed more than we need to though and having to burn more resources because of that. If he is the last one left standing he can bring us all back must be the mentality IDK.

Sword of Spirit · Nov 11, 2014

Okay, why is he not getting sneak attack damage? He doesn't have to be in melee with an opponent--he only has to have an ally in melee with the opponent, and he can sneak attack from range with a bow.

Is this rule being misunderstood at your table? Would it make a difference it he was getting his ranged sneak attack damage 95%+ of the time like he should be?

Zardnaar · Nov 11, 2014

Sword of Spirit said:
Okay, why is he not getting sneak attack damage? He doesn't have to be in melee with an opponent--he only has to have an ally in melee with the opponent, and he can sneak attack from range with a bow.

Is this rule being misunderstood at your table? Would it make a difference it he was getting his ranged sneak attack damage 95%+ of the time like he should be?

He wins initiative, no ally nearby = no sneak attack. He dashes 80' away and then fires his bow for 1d6+5 damage on the off chance the DM would throw a spear at him with disadvantage so he can use this reaction to halve the 1d8+2 damage. Thas a betetr plan than readying an action to have your attack when someone is close enough. Fighter goes into melee gets KOed the the fighter we need to hit has +2 AC and the Rogue misses his shot vs ac 23 or 24 As opposed to melee, potential bard dice and I can knock the BBEG prone and no +2 AC for cover)

IDK why to be honest but when hauled up about it the response was along the lines "I can only use uncanny dodge 1/round and it uses my reaction to ready an action". Probably should have known we were in trouble when he took the mobility feat so he can use his bonus action to dash everywhere.

Basically he was to far away to move, bonus action heal and take an attack, in the wrong position/situation to enable sneak attacks, not in the right position to support the fighter or use uncanny dodge, to far away to get bardic dice even if I wanted to help him and to far away to get extra sneak attacks via dissonant whispers. Its happening again and again as well. The Bard and Wizard are going nova alot but eventually we run out of stuff and then bad things happen up to and including both of us going into a deadly fight on steroids with 0 spells left and all healing options exhausted.

Sword of Spirit · Nov 11, 2014

Wow...yeah that's pretty crazy. Sneak attack is so easy to get, that it takes skills to avoid opportunities for sneak attacking with a rogue.

Joe Liker · Nov 11, 2014

I'm still finding this combat entirely baffling. What on earth are you fighting that has a 23 AC? What level are you guys?

Was this a fight you had to start? With no spells left at all, I'd be looking for any other option, especially if I had any idea it was a deadly encounter with a BBEG.

And the fighter really got KOed in the first round? Sheesh. I'm surprised you didn't ALL die.

So basically no one is able to survive being in melee range of the enemy long enough for a sneak attack? If that's true, this really was an unwinnable fight. The rogue is looking smarter and smarter the more you explain what happened.

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