D&D 5E Mearls' "Firing" tweet

ArchfiendBobbie · Jan 25, 2018

billd91 said:
Sounds to me like you're advocating not fighting at all. And that would give the trolls the most power of all because they're driving everyone else from the field.

Nope. I'm advocating going around them. Act anyway. Let them suffer when they don't get their way no matter how loud they are and can't get the attention they crave.

GMforPowergamers · Jan 25, 2018

I just want to say I am happy for new blood in the Wotc bullpen, I do wish mearls was better at frasing but I am not one to talk so good on him for trying...but the way the ignore feature works makes me reading this thread very hard with people quoting post I can't go back to and see the context of.

ad_hoc · Jan 25, 2018

nswanson27 said:
Having the most hardship doesn't grant the moral authority to draw the line of where it's ok or not to dislike someone. Just because it doesn't happen on the same level does not mean it doesn't exist. And just because a columnist or a group of people think a particular way doesn't make it so either. It's just what they think

And who is the authority on morality? That's right, it's the dominant culture. White patriarchy.

Those in power have decided that it is not okay for those they have subjugated to be upset about it. Shocking.

Here's the thing. It doesn't matter whether you think Mearls' has the 'moral authority' to do what he did. He did it. People are doing it. They aren't allowing abusers into their social spaces. You may declare that it is immoral to do so, but it doesn't matter. It's being done. You aren't welcome anymore.

Jester David · Jan 25, 2018

Zardnaar said:
Yeah I know Paizo has several women designers, never bothered me any because I knew they had done good work. And their staff post on their own forums (imagine that).

WotC doesn't have forums anymore. That's now how most people engage with brands online anymore. I'm not going to fault WotC for eschewing forums than I will fault Paizo for eschewing Usenet….

Zardnaar said:
Its really hard to be blatantly unqualified in RPG design if you are remotely creative though as you could be an ideas person for example although the ability to write would be important.

That was my thought. 75% of good mechanic design is coming up with the cool idea, especially in 5e. The rest is easy to teach.

Zardnaar said:
I can just think of better candidates however or at least well known ones like DMGuild writers (PT Black), Crystal/Amanda. Social media presence is important these days maybe that factored into it and that may be more important to sell the game than write it (which they can already do).

I think she will be alright. Worst case scenario she leaves in a year or two and does something else.

This also assumes the "better candidates" applied. It does require moving to Seattle, and many other designers have work or a day job they like.

Plus, we haven't seen her resume. We have NO IDEA of her full qualifications, just the stuff she listed on her artists' website.
Trust also comes into it. Do we trust WotC to hire someone who can do the job?

So far they've done good with 5e. I cannot imagine Perkins, Mearls, Crawford, Lindsey, or Stewart signing off on someone they don't believe is able to put in the work or will harm the game. To them, D&D is as much a passion as a job, and I don't think they'd tap someone who would make bad products while also making their job harder.

Zardnaar · Jan 25, 2018

Jester David said:
WotC doesn't have forums anymore. That's now how most people engage with brands online anymore. I'm not going to fault WotC for eschewing forums than I will fault Paizo for eschewing Usenet….

That was my thought. 75% of good mechanic design is coming up with the cool idea, especially in 5e. The rest is easy to teach.

This also assumes the "better candidates" applied. It does require moving to Seattle, and many other designers have work or a day job they like.

Plus, we haven't seen her resume. We have NO IDEA of her full qualifications, just the stuff she listed on her artists' website.
Trust also comes into it. Do we trust WotC to hire someone who can do the job?

So far they've done good with 5e. I cannot imagine Perkins, Mearls, Crawford, Lindsey, or Stewart signing off on someone they don't believe is able to put in the work or will harm the game. To them, D&D is as much a passion as a job, and I don't think they'd tap someone who would make bad products while also making their job harder.

Exactly this is not a Lorraine Williams type repeat here. At the absolute worst it may not work out.

Sacrosanct · Jan 25, 2018

ad_hoc said:
Nope.

When systemic racism has caused you hardships throughout your life and you have been harassed, threatened, and abused, by bigots who have the safety of being in power, then it is completely fine for you to dislike those people.

This is especially true of those individuals in power who use their pain as a way to further attack them. They call them racists. They say 'not all men!' and then silence them by taking the podium.

Reverse racism doesn't exist. Reverse sexism doesn't exist.

https://www.vice.com/en_uk/article/...please-stop-pretending-reverse-racism-is-real

Posting a link to another person's personal opinion is hardly proof of your argument. Look, discrimination against every group (including whites and men) does in fact exist. It's something provable because we can go and see actual example of it that have gone through the court system. Just because one group has is much worse doesn't mean the other group doesn't experience it. That's the most basic of fallacies. And more to my point I was making, when you make comments like that, that are blatantly not true, it completely devolves the discussion. If we have these discussions and want any sort of progress, then it's on all parties to be truthful and accurate.

Shasarak said:
So not so well, eh? Look at you like your kinda crazy, hmm?

Well too late you are fired* from this forum.

Obviously not literally fired, more like fired in an impotent Mearls kind of way that means you can just keep on doing what ever you want to.

You're the one who acted like he was literal, not me. Otherwise why bother to point out he isn't the owner? We all knew that already. But he is the head face of D&D, and that's the point.

nswanson27 · Jan 25, 2018

ad_hoc said:
And who is the authority on morality? That's right, it's the dominant culture. White patriarchy.

Those in power have decided that it is not okay for those they have subjugated to be upset about it. Shocking.

Here's the thing. It doesn't matter whether you think Mearls' has the 'moral authority' to do what he did. He did it. People are doing it. They aren't allowing abusers into their social spaces. You may declare that it is immoral to do so, but it doesn't matter. It's being done. You aren't welcome anymore.

Wasn't talking about Mearls - I was specifically addressing the contents in your previous post. So are you saying I'm not welcome because you think I'm an abuser? I'm simply trying to discuss this.

Obryn · Jan 25, 2018

Zardnaar said:
The thing that some people have an issue with I suppose is she got parachuted into a top level job in the RPG world with no D&D design credits. There are posters here on ENworld with more published work than her.

The women Paizo hired more or less done the same thing Mearls did. They worked for 3pp/did freelance work, got published, got noticed, got more work, eventually got hired. Amanda and Crystal did that, I was looking through old Dragons and found an interview with Mearls in 2000 Dragon d20 special. Mearls also had a few adventures published in Dungeon for 3.5.

The new hire has skipped that process which I think is what a few people would expect, she has not done her dues in the trenches so to speak. Its not unprecedented in the D&D world but you would probably have to go back to TSR to find examples as most of the 3E and 4E crew were either from TSR or had been published in things like Dragon and Dungeon. With no Dragon and Dungeon you would expect published 3pp and freelance work and the DMGuild.

IDK if its unique in the modern D&D era, but it is unusual to say the least hence why I think some people are accusing her of being unqualified. She has skipped a few steps most designers have gone down. Getting published and getting noticed has been the more traditional way of doing things I suppose nothing to do with her gender although it looks like some idiots have made it an issue.

For something you claimed to not care about, you sure are posting a bunch of lengthy opinion pieces about her qualifications.

billd91 said:
Funny, I'd have said the fight is far too important to not get involved with.

yyyyup.

ArchfiendBobbie said:
Ghostbusters, Marvel, Yahoo, and Gawker Media all took that same stance. How many of those came out the better for it?

Ignoring the trolls would have undercut their voice and allowed the game to fight it without directly engaging. And no direct engagement deprives them of the majority of their power.

Fight smarter, not harder.

That's not how fighting works. That's how retreating works.

nswanson27 said:
Having the most hardship doesn't grant the moral authority to draw the line of where it's ok or not to dislike someone. Just because it doesn't happen on the same level does not mean it doesn't exist. And just because a columnist or a group of people think a particular way doesn't make it so either.
Now not saying there aren't plenty of cases where your accusations don't ring true, but it's not an absolute thing.

I think you're confusing prejudice or racial animus with institutional racism. These are different things, and the terminology is used confusingly a whole lot.

ArchfiendBobbie said:
Depends on your priorities. Mine are to gain victory with the fewest losses. Sacrificinh DnD this way does not strike me as an intelligent tactic.

What, exactly, are you worried about here? In what sense is anyone sacrificing D&D? What losses do you foresee?

Sacrosanct · Jan 25, 2018

ArchfiendBobbie said:
Ghostbusters, Marvel, Yahoo, and Gawker Media all took that same stance. How many of those came out the better for it?

Ignoring the trolls would have undercut their voice and allowed the game to fight it without directly engaging. And no direct engagement deprives them of the majority of their power.

Fight smarter, not harder.

If only there was a term for when someone is arguing the status quo that inherently benefits them because they aren't part of the group adversely affected by said status quo...

Flexor the Mighty! · Jan 25, 2018

nswanson27 said:
Wasn't talking about Mearls - I was specifically addressing the contents in your previous post. So are you saying I'm not welcome because you think I'm an abuser? I'm simply trying to discuss this.

Reminds me of the intersectionalists who tell me that denying being a racist(or any -ist), and asking for proof or evidence of some incident of racism is in itself proof of the racism.