List features of Pathfinder 2 that you like and might use in D&D 5e

Yaarel

He Mage
This is the first time I've heard of the word "race" being problematic. It's also used by World of Warcraft, Elder Scrolls, Warhammer 40k, Star Trek Online, Final Fantasy, and just about every other fantasy game on the market.

D&D uses the term ‘race’ accurately − there is only one human race.

The term as used is inoffensive, but it is just ... awkward. Heh, it is as if D&D came out with a splatbook called ‘D&Ds Guide to Colored People’. I mean, it might even be well meaning, but it comes across as eye-rolling-ly out of touch.
 

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dave2008

Legend
Thus far I'm interested in the following from PF2:

1) Action Economy
2) Shield Reaction AC bonus
3) Some of the feats they have been previewed
 


thorgrit

Explorer
I'd thought of it before, but PF2 reminded me of it. I might start level 1 characters with an extra racial hit die - d8(5) for most, d10(6) for sturdier folk like dwarves, d6(4) for elves/halflings, etc. Can choose only one starting hit die to be maximized, so an elf fighter would want the class d10 maxed over the racial d6, while a half-orc sorcerer would go for the racial d10 over class d6.

So far, many things have interested me about the system, but not many that I think I'd like to pluck out and use without seeing how the system as a whole works.
 

S

Sunseeker

Guest
Or you pass your intelligence check & realize that they really were talking about different races.

Elf, dwarf, human, etc - they really are different races.
Sure, within an individual race they also have ethnicities & heritages (wood elf, drow, assorted human cultures in GH/FR & whatever else). But that doesn't stop there from being 5+ actual races to choose to make your character from.

Technically, they're different species though there's a question about fantasy and cross-breeding here especially considering that the standard lore is that Orcs, Elves and Dwarves are all creations of gods, while humans are...evolved I guess? (or created by the original evil incarnation of Pelor) And that none of them have any shared genealogical history. They're all flesh and apparently that's good enough?

A race can exist within a species. IE: Drow and High Elves, they are physiologically quite different, but there is little true biological difference (skin color, hair pigmentation, the size of the women) all of which can be achieved through selective breeding (which the Drow practice). The Drow are also a an ethnicity because they have a fairly unique culture, but there could be multiple ethnicity of Drow without any biological variation.

It really depends on what you want to achieve with the term "race".
If we're talking about different biological creatures, then the technically correct term is "species", but that's fairly sciency for D&D.
If we're talking about different physical appearances but little biological differences "race" (as the older usage) is applicable, while "ethnicity" is more modern (and reads like it too).
If we're talking about people who generally look the same an ascribe to the same system of beliefs values, then culture is applicable here, but "ethnicity" also works, though "nationality" is the more modern usage (yes, even for groups of people who do not have nation-states). Heritage can also work, but heritage is not inherently specific to biology or culture. Ancestry is much the same as heritage, though leans more towards the biological than the cultural, but is often used interchangably.
If we're talking about people who behave the same way, but may not be biologically the same, then the term is "culture".

Since D&D differentiates "races" by giving each of them specific physical depictions and physical/mental stats, the most appropriate word in this context is "species". The older usage of "race" would be more applicable between the D&D differences between say, High, Wood and Dark Elves(Drow). They're the same species, but have noticeable (but what would be considered biologically minor) variations.

D&D's biggest problem and confusion with terms comes from the fact that both elves and orcs can cross-breed with humans. It's unclear if orcs can breed with elves, and there is history that dwarves and elves can cross-breed, but there's not much info on if an elf and a dwarf can cross breed.

If we were to remove the ability to cross-breed, the terms would fall into place nicely, species would refer to Elf, Human, Orc, and race or ethnicity would refer to High Elf, Brown Orc, Mountain Dwarf, etc... Culture and nationality would then be left up to the table. Ancestry and Heritage would only be appropriate when referencing who your forebears were and who a character identifies with (ie: a Human raised by Orcs may consider Orc-dom his Heritage, but his Ancestry humanity).

I'm sure I didn't need to write all this but really, it comes down to the problem of species with no shared biological history being able to cross-breed that makes D&D's terminology problematic. That can be resolved by removing the ability, or writing in shared ancestry, ie: Humans who migrated thousands of years ago to the Feywild became the first fey, or fey who were banished from the Feywild devolved into humans, and the Orcus?Grummush? got jealous and kidnapped some humans and turned them into Orcs. Moradin was just lazy and stole some orcs and made their hairier, and that's why Orcs and Dwarves hate each other.

Anywho.....
 
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Technically, they're different species though there's a question about fantasy and cross-breeding here especially considering that the standard lore is that Orcs, Elves and Dwarves are all creations of gods, while humans are...evolved I guess? (or created by the original evil incarnation of Pelor) And that none of them have any shared genealogical history. They're all flesh and apparently that's good enough?

A race can exist within a species. IE: Drow and High Elves, they are physiologically quite different, but there is little true biological difference (skin color, hair pigmentation, the size of the women) all of which can be achieved through selective breeding (which the Drow practice). The Drow are also a an ethnicity because they have a fairly unique culture, but there could be multiple ethnicity of Drow without any biological variation.

It really depends on what you want to achieve with the term "race".
If we're talking about different biological creatures, then the technically correct term is "species", but that's fairly sciency for D&D.
If we're talking about different physical appearances but little biological differences "race" (as the older usage) is applicable, while "ethnicity" is more modern (and reads like it too).
If we're talking about people who generally look the same an ascribe to the same system of beliefs values, then culture is applicable here, but "ethnicity" also works, though "nationality" is the more modern usage (yes, even for groups of people who do not have nation-states). Heritage can also work, but heritage is not inherently specific to biology or culture. Ancestry is much the same as heritage, though leans more towards the biological than the cultural, but is often used interchangably.
If we're talking about people who behave the same way, but may not be biologically the same, then the term is "culture".

Since D&D differentiates "races" by giving each of them specific physical depictions and physical/mental stats, the most appropriate word in this context is "species". The older usage of "race" would be more applicable between the D&D differences between say, High, Wood and Dark Elves(Drow). They're the same species, but have noticeable (but what would be considered biologically minor) variations.

D&D's biggest problem and confusion with terms comes from the fact that both elves and orcs can cross-breed with humans. It's unclear if orcs can breed with elves, and there is history that dwarves and elves can cross-breed, but there's not much info on if an elf and a dwarf can cross breed.

If we were to remove the ability to cross-breed, the terms would fall into place nicely, species would refer to Elf, Human, Orc, and race or ethnicity would refer to High Elf, Brown Orc, Mountain Dwarf, etc... Culture and nationality would then be left up to the table. Ancestry and Heritage would only be appropriate when referencing who your forebears were and who a character identifies with (ie: a Human raised by Orcs may consider Orc-dom his Heritage, but his Ancestry humanity).

I'm sure I didn't need to write all this but really, it comes down to the problem of species with no shared biological history being able to cross-breed that makes D&D's terminology problematic. That can be resolved by removing the ability, or writing in shared ancestry, ie: Humans who migrated thousands of years ago to the Feywild became the first fey, or fey who were banished from the Feywild devolved into humans, and the Orcus?Grummush? got jealous and kidnapped some humans and turned them into Orcs. Moradin was just lazy and stole some orcs and made their hairier, and that's why Orcs and Dwarves hate each other.

Anywho.....

Outsiders are made of non-string based material (a possibility mentioned in String Theory), with a property that it harmonizes with string-based matter it is injected into*. Between aasimar, tieflings, genasi, not to mention classes like sorcerers, warlocks, and paladins where a humanoid is maybe partially changed into a non-string based entity, and given a few thousand (if not million) years for them to interbreed with "baseline" humanoids, and it is likely that every humanoid has some non-string based material in their DNA that partially re-harmonizes when members of different races reproduce (the material acts as regressive genes most of the time except when you have sex or get involved with magic). On the plus side, dragons are clearly further along this path than humanoids, so it gives humanoids something to look forward to....

Or D&D campaign worlds are really Ringworlds.....or something out of the Well of Souls books by Jack Chalker.

* You know that fits the "you can't really kill demons in the Prime Material worlds, only in the Abyss", since you are only de-harmonizing them in the Prime.....anyway if you can't mangle and misinterpret String Theory to get questionable pseudoscience, you aren't trying hard enough.
 

dave2008

Legend
I like the split of skill feats and combat feats.

I might just give everyone a non-combat feat or 3.

I have toyed with this idea several times. I like it as a game balancing mechanic, but I don't like being forced to select skill feats. My thoughts is, if someone doesn't wish to be good a skills, they should not be forced to take them I've been thinking lately that if I go with this type of split, I would allow a PC to trade 2 skill feats for 1 combat feat.
 

mellored

Legend
I have toyed with this idea several times. I like it as a game balancing mechanic, but I don't like being forced to select skill feats. My thoughts is, if someone doesn't wish to be good a skills, they should not be forced to take them I've been thinking lately that if I go with this type of split, I would allow a PC to trade 2 skill feats for 1 combat feat.
I wouldn't make them skills specificly. But non-combat feats.

Maybe just make a small list of things like "you can lift an extra 50lbs.", "you can hold your breath longer", "you instantly know the price of anything".

Oh... give out extra background features (not skills, just the features).
 

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