D&D 4E The Intelligent Fighter , Thibault's Circle / La Destreza.

Garthanos · Jun 20, 2019

And a custom encounter power for the The Intelligent Fighter

I considered making it against Reflexes.

Garthanos · Jun 20, 2019

Ancalagon said:
Multi-classing

Much better possibility than I thought actually (but it binds a lot of flavor things things like spell casting and a pet into the class too); The savant is closer but has a bad bad thing it takes all the way to level 6 before getting Brains over Brawn. (making it fundamentally Mad for basic functions ie attacking up until that point err oops)

Ancalagon · Jun 20, 2019

Personally, I would rather have intelligence give a bit of something to everyone instead of adding another int dependent class. If int saves were common, it might have helped...

The "ideal" solution would be skill point bonuses (as per 3.x) but this wouldn't work well in 5e...

Garthanos · Jun 20, 2019

Ancalagon said:
Personally, I would rather have intelligence give a bit of something to everyone instead of adding another int dependent class. If int saves were common, it might have helped...

Yes that is less of an issue in 4e, potentially at least for saves and armor class using quick predictive thinking (Int) is enabled for those in a solid way. Some I have seen advocate bringing back Fort/Ref/Wil for 5e instead of having mostly unused saves. Perhaps they could allow initiative based on intelligence.

While in 4e the foundation of value "in combat" is covered, they could have made more skills which were intelligence based out of combat (Engineering and Investigation maybe). And they could have had more powers and abilities like some I am posting in here for various broader classes to exploit intelligence in class specific ways. Similarly in 5e they could put tactician maneuvers in the Battlemaster (for example)

Tony Vargas · Jun 20, 2019

Ancalagon said:
The "ideal" solution would be skill point bonuses (as per 3.x) but this wouldn't work well in 5e...

Niether a 3e nor a 5e thread, but no bringing back a problematic mechanic so INT can add to it, not ideal.

Also not as pressing an issue in 4e, where INT isn't disfavored the way it is in 5e.

Tony Vargas · Jun 20, 2019

Garthanos said:
Yes that is less of an issue in 4e, potentially at least for saves and armor class using quick predictive thinking (Int) is enabled for those in a solid way. Some I have seen advocate bringing back Fort/Ref/Wil for 5e instead of having mostly unused saves. Perhaps they could allow initiative based on intelligence.

While in 4e the foundation of value "in combat" is covered, they could have made more skills which were intelligence based out of combat (Engineering and Investigation maybe).

There were 17 skills, INT applied to 3 of them: prettymuch exactly a fair share.

And they could have had more powers and abilities like some I am posting in here for various broader classes to exploit intelligence in class specific ways. Similarly in 5e they could put tactician maneuvers in the Battlemaster (for example)

INT was very worthwhile for a warlord because it powered some commanding presence choices and power riders, the sane was true of other classes.
It's a proven-effective mechanism.

Garthanos · Jun 20, 2019

Tony Vargas said:
There were 17 skills, INT applied to 3 of them: prettymuch exactly a fair share.

Compare to Wisdom however which got way too much AND strength and con got only 1 a piece. While I would still change Dungeoneering to Engineering and make it intelligence based - that wouldn't help anything else.

Arcana as a skill feels like its "just for magical types" subjectively I suppose it makes 3 feel like 2. But is a component of multi-classing (or making a hero who senses and understands magic without real training)
making it very useful.

Tony Vargas said:
INT was very worthwhile for a warlord because it powered some commanding presence choices and power riders, the sane was true of other classes.
It's a proven-effective mechanism.

AND could be more true for more classes such as the ideas presented in this thread. Oh yeah I knew there were int items for rogues too but wasn't entirely certain how much the rogue had and assumed they were for conman style not ninja. (guess con-man got charisma too)

Tony Vargas · Jun 20, 2019

Garthanos said:
Compare to Wisdom however which got way too much AND strength and con got only 1 a piece. While I would still change Dungeoneering to Engineering and make it intelligence based - that wouldn't help anything else.

Yeah, CON is a bit of an uberstat in 4e, because it adds to 1st level hps, and surges, which scale, so it getting the fuzzy end on skills is one thing. STR getting the same treatment was an issue, but breaking Athletics out into more skills would hardly be helpful.

Arcana as a skill feels like its "just for magical types" subjectively I suppose it makes 3 feel like 2.

It easily is an over-valued skill: it's the knowledge skill for three origins, for instance, for many rituals, and for questions about dragons, magic, items, &c. You could split all the knowledge of magic & rituals into Spellcraft, for instance, and Arcana would still be a solid knowledge skill. But, y'know, everyone getting Arcana for free would just get spellcraft too...

AND could be more true for more classes such as the ideas presented in this thread. Oh yeah I knew there were int items for rogues too but wasn't entirely certain how much the rogue had and assumed they were for conman style not ninja. (guess con-man got charisma too)

I don't recall the Rogue's uses for INT, but, for instance, the Warlock was INT secondary, a notorious V class.

Garthanos · Jun 20, 2019

Tony Vargas said:
I don't recall the Rogue's uses for INT, but, for instance, the Warlock was INT secondary, a notorious V class.

Rogue had an at-will that let you shift INT distance and basically disappear the Shadowy Rogue might even be THE batman rogue build instead of the Ninja as I have been calling it.

That was a fully functional build if you wanted an Intelligent Secondary type. I posted a loose example but now that I think about it instead of building a fencer flavor I need to make it batman with shuriken.

I could give that rogue the martial technique so he has knife hand strike at minimum

Garthanos · Jun 20, 2019

Tony Vargas said:
Yeah, CON is a bit of an uberstat in 4e, because it adds to 1st level hps, and surges, which scale, so it getting the fuzzy end on skills is one thing. STR getting the same treatment was an issue, but breaking Athletics out into more skills would hardly be helpful.

Hence why I don't find myself coming up with good solutions for those. Getting more surges means not only having that staying power in combat but also an extra amount of effort you can apply to skill challenge use of a skill or to a martial practice. It could be seen as fuel for ALL the other skills and not really needing other skill related value.

5e Con keeps on keeping on for giving more and more hit points... ie it scales there too.