The Final Bladelock

Garthanos · Jun 17, 2019

Paul Farquhar said:
Do you expect all class/subclass choices to have the same HP, AC, skill points and utility powers?

Class/Subclass choices are NOT INTENDED TO DO EQUAL DAMAGE.

Establishing expectations has a value I suppose even if you have to use the R word.

TwoSix · Jun 17, 2019

Are you trying to patch Blade-lock based on the assumption that Hexblade would not be present in your game? Just because a fix that boosts Bladelock for other patrons might be way too strong combined with Hexblade.

Simple Bladelock patch: Remove Lifedrinker. Move Thirsting Blade to 7, and change it to give the equivalent of the EK level 7 ability War Magic.

Now a Str-based warlock can do BB/GFB + an extra weapon attack, and can leverage GWM if they so choose. Or you can be a combo EB blaster + swordswinger.

Possible adjustments:
1) Add +Cha to one-handed weapons as a Blade Pact level 3 ability to support the EB blaster combination.
2) Custom melee cantrips to use instead of BB/GFB.
3) An Eldritch Armor invocation to give heavy armor proficiency, if you want Str bladelock supported without MCing.

TwoSix · Jun 17, 2019

Paul Farquhar said:
Do you expect all class/subclass choices to have the same HP, AC, skill points and utility powers?

Class/Subclass choices are NOT INTENDED TO DO EQUAL DAMAGE.

Yes, but this is a case where the description on the package doesn't match what's in the box.

I mean, if you want to make a warlock that's good in melee, it's a little surprising to find out the "Blade" warlock doesn't do as well as the "Book" warlock.

Paul Farquhar · Jun 17, 2019

The word "bladelock" is never used in the rules. There is nothing to indicate an expectation that they will be ever be able to compete with fighters on the front line.

Warlocks get a whole bunch of utility powers that make them useful to have around. They can see in the dark, read any language, detect magic at will. Their patrons might occasionally give them a weapon for self defence "try not to cut yourself". Books, blades and familiars are just fluff, they aren't meant to completely define the character (that is the role of patron choice).

Notice this: Eldritch Blast and Agonising Blast are completely optional for warlocks of any type. There is no expectation that a warlock be a damage dealer at all.

TwoSix · Jun 17, 2019

Paul Farquhar said:
The word "bladelock" is never used in the rules. There is nothing to indicate an expectation that they will be ever be able to compete with fighters on the front line.

Warlocks get a whole bunch of utility powers that make them useful to have around. They can see in the dark, read any language, detect magic at will. Their patrons might occasionally give them a weapon for self defence "try not to cut yourself". Books, blades and familiars are just fluff, they aren't meant to completely define the character (that is the role of patron choice).

Notice this: Eldritch Blast and Agonising Blast are completely optional for warlocks of any type. There is no expectation that a warlock be a damage dealer at all.

My simple argument is that Pact of the Blade suggests a more offense-oriented approach for a character than Pact of the Tome. If you disagree with that interpretation of the flavor, that's fine. Since the OP seems to agree with that interpretation (otherwise why would they have made the OP?), I'll continue to support them by suggesting rules changes that may help them realize their vision.

TallIan · Jun 17, 2019

A couple of suggestions that might work, rather than just re-skinning EB

War Fiend/Fey/whatever
Essentially give the blade lock the Warpriest Feature keyed off CHA. This gives the warlock a slight dps boost.

War Magic
Stolen from the Eldritch Knight. This one is troublesome because it would have to be granted at a later level than the pacts are - something I think should be avoided.

Pact guard
As a reaction you can use your pact weapon to guard against an enemy's melee attacks. Until the start of your next turn you may ad your CHA modifier to your AC. Once you use this feature you may not use it again until you complete a short or long rest.

Cursed Blade
When you hit with your melee pact weapon the target suffers the effect of hex

Change the wording in Armour of Agathys to:
...If a creature hits you with a melee attack while you have temporary hit points... This allows you to recharge the effect without using your spell slots - especially good for Fiend Pact - but builds that seek THP sources become attractive.

Grant PotB an extra melee cantrip from a limited . GFB and BB blade stand out as improving the attack. Shillelagh I don't think fits because it is specific for a club (so maybe for a fey blade pact) but I can see how the mechanics are favorable. Other melee ranges ones could also work; Sword Burst; Thorn Whip as examples.

Paul Farquhar · Jun 17, 2019

TwoSix said:
My simple argument is that Pact of the Blade suggests a more offense-oriented approach for a character than Pact of the Tome. If you disagree with that interpretation of the flavor, that's fine. Since the OP seems to agree with that interpretation (otherwise why would they have made the OP?), I'll continue to support them by suggesting rules changes that may help them realize their vision.

Your simple argument hinges on reading too much into the name. You could make the same argument for Collage of Valour bards, and they aren't much cop as melee fighters; War domain clerics serve gods of war, that doesn't make them ultimate fighters themselves; Moon druids don't go into space; eldritch knights don't have tentacles growing out of strange orifices; Oath of the Ancients paladins are sometimes young; Thieves can be lawful and don't have to steel anything; bladesingers can be tone deaf and rubbish with a sword, etc, etc...

Meanwhile, if you want to build an offence orientated warlock, you can take Eldritch Blast and Agonising Blast. You can do that with Pact of the Blade, you can do that with a Hexblade patron.

TwoSix · Jun 17, 2019

Paul Farquhar said:
Your simple argument hinges on reading too much into the name. You could make the same argument for Collage of Valour bards, and they aren't much cop as melee fighters; War domain clerics serve gods of war, that doesn't make them ultimate fighters themselves; Moon druids don't go into space; eldritch knights don't have tentacles growing out of strange orifices; Oath of the Ancients paladins are sometimes young; Thieves can be lawful and don't have to steel anything; bladesingers can be tone deaf and rubbish with a sword, etc, etc...

Meanwhile, if you want to build an offence orientated warlock, you can take Eldritch Blast and Agonising Blast. You can do that with Pact of the Blade, you can do that with a Hexblade patron.

You've defeated me with your clever wordplay. I concede.

Xeviat · Jun 17, 2019

I expect two builds of the same class to be similar in both resource expenditure and end result. I don't know why you're so hard against it.

Yes, I'll probably be altering the hexblade. I might just move the hexwarrior stuff over to Blade and then retheme hexblade as a shadow, dark being style pact.

TwoSix · Jun 17, 2019

Xeviat said:
I expect two builds of the same class to be similar in both resource expenditure and end result. I don't know why you're so hard against it.

Yes, I'll probably be altering the hexblade. I might just move the hexwarrior stuff over to Blade and then retheme hexblade as a shadow, dark being style pact.

You can strip out Hex Warrior straight up, and Hexblade is still probably the strongest overall warlock patron. You can move Hex Warrior to Blade Pact if you want to stop Warlock 1 dips from happening, or just fold it into base warlock if you don't see the MC as being a problem.