Chaotic Good Is The Most Popular Alignment!

D&D Beyond has provided yet another of it's data dumps of 12 million characters -- this time telling us character alignments are most popular in D&D. Chaotic Good wins, followed by my least favourite as a DM, Chaotic Neutral. Chaotic Evil is the least popular.

Screenshot 2019-06-13 at 23.14.00.png



The developer does say that this does not count the percentage of characters with no alignment selected. You can see the original video here.
 
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Oofta

Legend
Your LG is just another CG. It's an example of a CG cleric or paladin following his beliefs and the tenets of his CG god. Below is what would be a better example of LG.

LG: Slavery is unjust and the tyrannical government enslaving the people should be overthrown. New just laws against slavery should be instated.

It would make not sense that someone who is LG has to follow all the laws of the area they are currently in. If it is illegal to be a worshipper of <insert LG god in your campaign here> in my hypothetical orc-controlled kingdom do you really expect that LG cleric or paladin to just turn themselves in to the local authority? The fundamental belief system of my PC no matter what their alignment is not going to change because of where they happen to be located at the moment.

I don't see how a PC could be playable if they had to obey every rule of every land they ever visit if they ever enter stray from countries that have reasonable and just laws.
 

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5ekyu

Hero
Freedom and personal freedom are not the same thing. I was speaking of acting on whims. Whims, by definition, are illogical and often unreliable. If you never actually act on whims, you aren't really driven by whims which means you aren't chaotic.



No, I'd call him mistaken.

But following laws isn't the definition of lawful.
"Whims, by definition, are illogical and often unreliable."

No, not really...

"a sudden desire or change of mind, especially one that is unusual or unexplained."

Nothing about illogical or unreliable there. Even capricious isnt requiring illogic.

Why did you buy it?
I liked it.
But its green. You usually hate green.
Yeah but it struck my fancy.

But the key is, eith alignment edspecially, you are not required to be 100% chaotic in every aspect of your life.

I can be reliable and non-whimsical about say "saving lives" or "keeping my word (when given)" and still be quite whimsical at many many other times.

I mean, whimsical and chaotic isnt some compulsion to do crazy stuff. I can decide it's good to keep my word here just like I can decide eating regularly is good and not spoiling myself is too.

"If you never actually act on whims, you aren't really driven by whims which means you aren't chaotic. "

Two points... iirc the point bring made was you vould be reliable and be chaotic - kerp your word etc. Do, that's not saying never act on whims. I can choose plenty of non-disruptive whims to act on, right, and exclude the disruptive ones because chaotic =/= crazy.

Second, one of the first points I make is that alignment is DERIVED from actions/choices and alignment does not DRIVE actions. You are alignment ABC because you up you do XYZ things... it's not that you God XYZ things because you are ABC alignment.

But... of course GMs can choose to run games differently, but any time I saw GMs try to make alignment the compelling force of a PC it went badly.
 

5ekyu

Hero
I disagree. If your character is consistent, reliable, dependable and never impulsive, in what way is that character chaotic? What about any of those descriptors would lead an observer to the conclusion that this character is chaotic?

As far as “policing” goes, I’m not really sure where you are getting that. I guess my question to the player would be the same as my question to you - if this character never does anything that would be described as chaotic, then how is this character chaotic?

If the chaotic character acts exactly the same as the lawful character then why bother with the distinction?
"- if this character never does anything that would be described as chaotic, then how is this character chaotic?"

Just to be clear - has anyone but you posted the notion of a character claiming chaotic that NEVER foes snything chaotic?

It seems like there is some leap from over a wide gulf of "mostly".
 


D1Tremere

Adventurer
This is an example of the uselessness of alignment systems. Most people choose CG because it is basically the same as no alignment. You can be flexible with regard to laws and rules as you seek to adhere to whatever social normatives you give your character.
 

Lanefan

Victoria Rules
I mean, from my perspective, you’re describing a really bad dnd experience. That sounds like the kind of table I’d walk away from mid session, after the DM refused to compromise their need to control my character.

You dont have a vote in what my character’s alignment is.
Actually, I do.

If you're playing, with any consistency and without some underlying reason, what to all appearances is a CG character but it says LN on your sheet, then as far as I'm concerned you're CG and that's what detection spells etc. are going to pull from you.
 

Maxperson

Morkus from Orkus
It would make not sense that someone who is LG has to follow all the laws of the area they are currently in.

Cool, because that's not what I said.

If it is illegal to be a worshipper of <insert LG god in your campaign here> in my hypothetical orc-controlled kingdom do you really expect that LG cleric or paladin to just turn themselves in to the local authority?

No. That would be silly.

The fundamental belief system of my PC no matter what their alignment is not going to change because of where they happen to be located at the moment.

Correct. However, a belief system that involves a belief that the laws of the land are of little concern and that everyone should be free, is chaotic. Even in an evil land, 95% of the laws will not be evil and a good character would follow those, so the laws of the land are of concern to a lawful character. The laws that a LG character would ignore would be the few unjust/evil ones.

I don't see how a PC could be playable if they had to obey every rule of every land they ever visit if they ever enter stray from countries that have reasonable and just laws.

I don't, either, but then that wasn't an argument I put forth.
 

Hussar

Legend
It's all a big waste of time... both the alignment system *and* all the discussion about the alignment system.

Just play your character and then worry about how you might've defined him with one of 9 boxes after the fact.

Honestly, that's how I view it. [MENTION=29398]Lanefan[/MENTION]'s "breaking in period" makes sense to me.

I think this all boils down to a fundamental disagreement over what the word Chaotic means in terms of alignment.

You seem to be of the opinion that being Chaotic is like being a kleptomaniac - both require the character to follow their impulses with little regard for the consequences.

Myself and others are of the opinion that Chaotic is NOT like being a kleptomaniac - one is basic motivation that can easily be overridden by other factors such as maintaining friendships, fear of punishment, etc., while one is basically a mental disorder.

Neither opinion is factually wrong - this is a game of make-believe, after all - but can you see how our interpretation might make the Chaotic alignments a little more acceptable as part of an adventuring group? Because you're right, under what I believe your and others' interpretation of Chaotic to be, no one in their right minds would allow a Chaotic person in their adventuring group (even, I would say, CG - Chaotic is, after all, by definition completely unreliable), much less trust them with their life.

Yes, I would view it that way. Chaotic good gets the pass because, well, being good, the character still values the life and well being of others. Think Wolverine from the X-men. Disobeys orders, often goes off on his own and is frankly a menace to the team, but, generally well intentioned and often acts in other character's best interests. A Chaotic Neutral? Why on earth would I want that on the team? The alignment is diametrically opposed to everything that a team represents.

It would make not sense that someone who is LG has to follow all the laws of the area they are currently in. If it is illegal to be a worshipper of <insert LG god in your campaign here> in my hypothetical orc-controlled kingdom do you really expect that LG cleric or paladin to just turn themselves in to the local authority? The fundamental belief system of my PC no matter what their alignment is not going to change because of where they happen to be located at the moment.

I don't see how a PC could be playable if they had to obey every rule of every land they ever visit if they ever enter stray from countries that have reasonable and just laws.

For one, following the laws of the land is not what lawful good is about. Lawful Neutral? Maybe. But, the good aspect of LG means judging laws based on morality and acting accordingly. What about LG would imply that they have to follow all the laws?

----

And, [MENTION=6919838]5ekyu[/MENTION]'s idea of whims. You own definition states that whims are illogical - they cannot be explained.

----

Lastly, it's this whole "well chaotic can be just as reliable as lawful" that has made demons in D&D unbelievably bland. 3e was particularly egregious for this. Demons that have deep, methodical plots that involved many parts? What? Naw, you're the thing of raw chaos and destruction. Plans are for weasel tongued devils. You're a demon. Live the life.

But, no, we get demons like Malcanthet and whatnot who are basically just devils with different damage resistances. BOOORRRIIIINGGG.

If CN is functionally no different than LG, then there's no point in having alignment. If a CN character is just as reliable and dependable as a LG character, then why bother having alignment at all?

And, honestly, if you want to play a reliable, dependable, works well with others character, why is it a huge problem for that character to write Lawful Good on the character sheet? What changes?
 

Charlaquin

Goblin Queen (She/Her/Hers)
I don’t really care to continue the argument about whether or not CN is “more Neutral than Neutral. That said, this:
By definition, chaotic individuals actively oppose laws

Is not true, the way 5e defines the alignments. That’s actually the point I was (somewhat passive-aggressively) trying to hint at by claiming that CN was “the neutralest Neutral.” I do think that Chaotic individuals should be opppsed to laws by definition, but if you actually read the definitions of the alignments in 5e, that’s not the case. CG individuals “act as their conscience directs, with little regard for what others expect.” CN individuals “follow their whims, holding their personal freedom above all else.” CE individuals “act with arbitrary violence, spurred by their greed, hatred, or bloodlust.” There is nothing about any of those alignments that necessitates active opposition to law. They all exhibit disregard for law, certainly, but disregard is, in my opinion, a hallmark of neutrality. Hence my (in hindsight, unnecessarily coy) assertion that Chaotic in 5e is just Neutral with attitude.
 

Charlaquin

Goblin Queen (She/Her/Hers)
For my part, what the player writes on the character sheet is only relevant for the first while*, until I-as-DM have seen the character in action and made my own determination of its alignment as played; which trumps what's on the sheet. And sometimes what I see is a long way from what the player wrote down! :)

* - during this time I also have no problem at all with a character somewhat-arbitrarily changing alignment if the player's initial idea for the character isn't working out. After this breaking-in period, alignment change - be it voluntary of forced - can have consequences particularly for some classes.
Interesting. I do something similar, but I treat the alignment on the character sheet as the character’s ideals. It is, in effect, a statement of intent. The player picked Lawful Good (or whatever) because they envisioned their character as someone who holds Law and Good as noble values, and strives to live up to them. However, people don’t always succeed at living up to their own ideals. So, any effects which care about your Alignment (so, basically none in 5e) will treat you as the alignment your behavior is consistent with, regardless of what your ideals are.
 

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