D&D 5E Why the Druid Metal Restriction is Poorly Implemented

generic · Jun 21, 2019

Paul Farquhar said:
Really?

Isn't it obvious? Druid spells and abilities offer little or no synergy with this playstyle (apart from shillelagh, which other classes can pick up).

Closest comparison would be a nature cleric.

Tortle with shillelagh and shield has an AC of 19. The nature cleric in full plate with shillelagh and shield has AC 20 and can benefit from magic armour, so that's a clear win for the cleric, apart from at low level when they might not be able to afford full plate.

Both can burn a feat to pick up Booming Blade, but if they don't then Divine Strike puts the cleric ahead at level 8. Otherwise it's a dead heat. Edit: A variant half elf cleric can get Booming Blade free and not miss out on +1 wis.

Spells are similar, but I would say spells like Shield of Faith and Shield Guardians put the cleric ahead as a front liner. The Tortle druid can use Shell Defence whilst Conjured Animals do the fighting, but that is little more than a gimmick.

Wildshape gives zero combat benefit - you can't use it at the same time.

Maybe you and I have different standards of balance. I don't think any full caster should ave an AC over 16-17 without magic items, i just doesn't balance well. Furthermore, of course that' bvious, but it's also not really what I was talking about. But, if our standards of balance misalign to such an extent, I suppose we'll have to agree to disagree.

Psyzhran2357 · Jun 21, 2019

Aebir-Toril said:
Maybe you and I have different standards of balance. I don't think any full caster should ave an AC over 16-17 without magic items, i just doesn't balance well. Furthermore, of course that' bvious, but it's also not really what I was talking about. But, if our standards of balance misalign to such an extent, I suppose we'll have to agree to disagree.

Heavy Armour Clerics and Medium Armour Bards have been in the game for a while now so you're kind of late to the party there.

But while Moon Druids can use their animal forms for combat, and the other Druid Circles can stay in the backline, Druids of the Circle of Spores, more than anybody else, need that extra AC. Their subclass features all but outright state that they're meant to be kn the front lines like a War Cleric or a Swords Bard or a Bladesinger Wizard, but the only things they get to increase their survivability are 4 temp HP per level and critical hit immunity at Level 14. The Temp HP I guess gets better when you have more of I, but at lower levels, assuming a standard array or point buy build, they're only gonna have 14 Ac with studded leather, 16 with sl and a shield. They're gonna get chewed up pretty quick if they brawl on the front, but they can't use their Halo of Spores or their Fungal Infestation if they aren't on the front, which is where a lot of their combat power comes from. They need the Medium Armour.

Maxperson · Jun 21, 2019

Oofta said:
Following the rules printed in the book is "absolutely morally abhorrent"?

Don't like the rule? Change it when you're running a game.

Except that there is no such rule in 5e. There is no rule saying druids cannot wear metal armor and still be druids. There is only one single line that makes wearing metal armor a choice and not a restriction. It seems you've changed the 5e rules to make it an absolute restriction, which is fine.

Maxperson · Jun 21, 2019

lowkey13 said:
Sounds like a labradoodle,* except twice an annoying and five times as needy.

A Paladruid, though, is usually known by a more common name- the Evangelizing Vegan.

/ducks

I had one of those come to my door last week and quack at me.

Oofta · Jun 21, 2019

Maxperson said:
Except that there is no such rule in 5e. There is no rule saying druids cannot wear metal armor and still be druids. There is only one single line that makes wearing metal armor a choice and not a restriction. It seems you've changed the 5e rules to make it an absolute restriction, which is fine.

"Druids will not wear armor or use shields made of metal" is about as clear a rule as I've seen in the book. Feel free to run it differently in your game.

Maxperson · Jun 21, 2019

Oofta said:
"Druids will not wear armor or use shields made of metal" is about as clear a rule as I've seen in the book. Feel free to run it differently in your game.

The bolded means that they CHOOSE not to wear it, which means that PCs are free to choose otherwise. PCs are often exceptions to standard choices. That sentence is not a statement of "cannot wear," no matter how you try to portray it.

Oofta · Jun 21, 2019

Maxperson said:
The bolded means that they CHOOSE not to wear it, which means that PCs are free to choose otherwise. PCs are often exceptions to standard choices. That sentence is not a statement of "cannot wear," no matter how you try to portray it.

Vegetarians will not eat meat. If my vegetarian nephew eats steak he is not a vegetarian. If a PC wears metal armor they are not a druid.

I'm done playing word games. Have a good one.

Paul Farquhar · Jun 21, 2019

Aebir-Toril said:
Maybe you and I have different standards of balance. I don't think any full caster should ave an AC over 16-17 without magic items,

So, you don't allow clerics in your game? Even those that don't get heavy armour proficiency by default are probably packing an AC of 19, and that is before they start casting Shield of Faith on themselves.

And it's not that hard to get an AC over 16 on a wizard, sorcerer or bard without magic items. And in my experience it makes little difference. AC only matters if attacks come your way.

Paul Farquhar · Jun 21, 2019

Oofta said:
Vegetarians will not eat meat. If my vegetarian nephew eats steak he is not a vegetarian. If a PC wears metal armor they are not a druid.

But (RAW) they can still cast all druid spells and use all druid special abilities.

And your analogy is flawed. If your vegetarian nephew easts steak without knowing, they are still a vegetarian. If they eat stake tonight they are not a vegetarian tonight, but they can go back to being a vegetarian tomorrow.

Oofta · Jun 21, 2019

Paul Farquhar said:
But (RAW) they can still cast all druid spells and use all druid special abilities.

And your analogy is flawed. If your vegetarian nephew easts steak without knowing, they are still a vegetarian. If they eat stake tonight they are not a vegetarian tonight, but they can go back to being a vegetarian tomorrow.

So I'm a vegetarian as long as I'm not eating meat? So I've been a vegetarian since last night's supper because I ate oatmeal for breakfast? Good to know.

So let me clarify: vegetarians will not eat meat.

Oh wait, that's not much of a clarification is it? I guess I'll just stick with my original point. Druids will not wear metal armor. Therefore a PC that wears metal armor is not a druid.