D&D 5E Double Dash

Jer · Jul 17, 2019

Xeviat said:
Quick question: do you allow monks, rogues, and users of expeditious retreat to "double dash" (bonus action dash, action dash, move with their regular speed)? Or do you limit them to only using a given action once per turn?

I suspect most allow for double dashing. It does mean that Rogues and others are much faster than other characters in chases or other things like that. If you limit someone to only using the dash action once per round, then those abilities are more about multitasking (attacking while dashing) rather than inherent speed boosts.

What are your thoughts?

I mean, it's never come up but I'm having a hard time seeing why I'd disallow it. Either they're running away faster than the rest of the party, they're chasing down something that is trying to get away from the party, or they're trying to get into melee combat faster.

In the first case, I either catch the rest of the party or I don't - if the rogue/monk gets away and the rest of the party doesn't then they get to sit out the combat or decide to come back and help. Doesn't seem like a concern. In the second case maybe they catch it - oh well, being a monk or a rogue means being fast so that's just part of why they're playing that character. And now they have to face whatever it is solo - it may be something that was worried about facing the whole party, but isn't so concerned about putting the beatdown on one chump who catches up to it when the rest of the party is a round or two behind. And in the third case the rogue/monk is rushing into melee combat. Which is what I want to encourage my players to do, rather than sit back and lob arrows at things.

So am I missing something? Is there a reason to disallow it that I'm not spotting?

jaelis · Jul 17, 2019

I like the idea of saying 3x move per round is really the fastest a creature can go, and reflects their "racing speed." Rogues and monks can readily move that fast in combat, but other characters have to make a check or perform a special action ('run") to do so.

Jer said:
So am I missing something? Is there a reason to disallow it that I'm not spotting?

I don't like the fact that simply being a monk or a rogue would make you so much faster than everyone else.

TwoSix · Jul 17, 2019

If there's anything more fun than casting Haste on a Monk so they can triple-Dash at double speed, I don't know what it is.

S'mon · Jul 17, 2019

Yes, same as an Action Surging Fighter can Attack Action twice.

Blue · Jul 17, 2019

LordEntrails said:
No. Would you give another character 2 bonus actions per turn just because they have access to more than 1?

Irrelevant. They were specifically talking about a bonus action dash and an action dash. This is the same as a sorcerer casting a quickened cantrip and the same cantrip as their action, which is just fine.

Blue · Jul 17, 2019

Sure I allow double Dash in those cases. It's a heroic game of fireballs and dragons - this seems an odd hill to head towards realism on. It fits both RAW and RAF. And considering double actions already exist with things like action surge, it also seems to fit RAI.

Along those lines, the rogue / fighter that wants to Action surge to get in Dash-Dash-Dash for one round can go for it.

Lidgar · Jul 17, 2019

Blue said:
Along those lines, the rogue / fighter that wants to Action surge to get in Dash-Dash-Dash for one round can go for it.

As long as the rogue has bleach blond spiked hair, I'm a huge fan of Triple D.

aco175 · Jul 17, 2019

Xeviat said:
I'm heavy leaning towards not allowing it under a "can't take the same action twice" clause, and to distinguish what cunning action is (multitasking).

I'm not sure I know what using the same action twice rule is. I just cannot recall it in the rules. Some of the other examples make sense about attacking and using cantrips. I know about the specific beats general rule and it seems this may fall into that rule.

I kind of see it as taking your move, using your action to dash, and then using your specific power to dash again. Other PCs do not have the cool power to let them break the rule. This may have come up in my game, but mostly the rogue uses disengage more than dash, or hide.

WaterRabbit · Jul 17, 2019

So for sprinting, the world record is just under 10 seconds for the 100 meter, which is just over 22 mph or 32 fps or 192 feet per round. A rogue that moves 30, then dashes for 30, the bonus dashes for 30 is running 10 mph -- hardly Usain Bolt speeds.

The 200 meter sprint record is just under twice the 100 meter record. However, by the time we get to the 400 meter, people are starting to slow down at 43 seconds (7 D&D rounds of continuously using dash).

So, if you go by the chase rules and have characters start making Con checks at 3+Con Modifier of using Dash, it probably works out just find with the real world records. If you are using the variant encumbrance rules, it helps a bit to slow down rogues (but not monks).

In 3.x D&D and Pathfinder you can run at 3x base while heavily encumbered and 4x base while lightly encumbered -- however, you would lose your Dex AC bonus to AC while doing so. It also costs the entire round to do so. There was also the run feat which increased it to 4x base and 5x base. So even if you allowed characters to run 5x base speed they still are not beating any world records.

If you don't want to see builds with spells and magic items in which a character can run 1 mile in a round, you might cap people at 10x base since it makes it kind of hard to use a battle mat with characters running at that speed.

Xeviat · Jul 17, 2019

aco175 said:
I'm not sure I know what using the same action twice rule is. I just cannot recall it in the rules. Some of the other examples make sense about attacking and using cantrips. I know about the specific beats general rule and it seems this may fall into that rule.

I kind of see it as taking your move, using your action to dash, and then using your specific power to dash again. Other PCs do not have the cool power to let them break the rule. This may have come up in my game, but mostly the rogue uses disengage more than dash, or hide.

Not an existing rule, it would be a house rule.

As I said, this is mostly because I'm going to have athletics checks for increasing speed, and I need a point to build that on. Either I allow double dashing (action dash, bonus dash, move) and base "fastest human" around someone who can bonus dash who has the mobile feat ... Or I say you can't use dash twice and make those abilities about multitasking.

I'm inclined to disallow double dashing because people can jog at around 6 mph for hours, and that requires the dash action. Double dashing would require an extra endurance consideration in the rules I'm writing, and it's far easier to avoid it.

Action Surge is an interesting case. I'd be inclined to not worry about it since it is a per rest ability and not something that can be done every round like cunning action.