D&D 5E Counterspell what do people think?

Garthanos · Jul 22, 2019

Counter Spell goes way way back in Chainmail it was one of several magic abilities the casters simply had. Alongside either a Fireball, or Lightning bolt, seeing in the Dark and becoming invisible
till they attacked.

The above were basically at-wills, yeh. Though in a mass battle each turn might be closer to an encounter but since the adversary also only did one thing its closer feeling to an at-will.

I am feeling nostalgic for something I didnt play over it so thereis that. I have read some criticisms over how counterspell was just too much a poof... no effect to me that it is a pure defense maneurver kind of limits it too. (What if there was backlash on the caster when you countered their spell)

https://dmdavid.com/tag/how-new-changes-created-the-4-most-annoying-spells-in-dungeons-dragons/

I kind of feel like its unlikely to come up so often as to really be a problem? But since it doesnt advance the battle towards its conclusion very much is it one people will even use?

Garthanos · Jul 22, 2019

I am now picturing a counterspell which harms the enemy if it succeeds by whiplash like effect and may harm the one casting counterspell if it fails.

Maxperson · Jul 22, 2019

I don't care for it. I personally dislike spells that people feel that they have to have, as that limits creativity and diversity in spells. When it comes to encounters, any caster than can have it generally does have it, on both sides. Combat becomes counter-counter-counter until one side is out and then spells start happening. And if only one side has it, the other side is screwed if it has spellcasters.

Garthanos · Jul 22, 2019

Maxperson said:
I don't care for it. I personally dislike spells that people feel that they have to have, as that limits creativity and diversity in spells. When it comes to encounters, any caster than can have it generally does have it, on both sides. Combat becomes counter-counter-counter until one side is out and then spells start happening. And if only one side has it, the other side is screwed if it has spellcasters.

So you have seen it as becoming "must have" hmmm.

Maxperson · Jul 22, 2019

Garthanos said:
So you have seen it as becoming "must have" hmmm.

It automatically shuts down spells of 3rd level or lower being used against you, and gives you a roll against the rest. Why would you not pick it and save your side damage, control, death, etc? You can even put it in a higher slot to auto shut down even higher spell levels.

Garthanos · Jul 22, 2019

Maxperson said:
It automatically shuts down spells of 3rd level or lower being used against you, and gives you a roll against the rest. Why would you not pick it and save your side damage, control, death, etc? You can even put it in a higher slot to auto shut down even higher spell levels.

How many adversaries are typically spell casters? I can actually see it way more valuable in say my game than someone else's as I think people are the most complex and interesting monsters of all. But I have definitely seen many a game where it never came up.

Maxperson · Jul 22, 2019

Garthanos said:
How many adversaries are typically spell casters? I can actually see it way more valuable in say my game than someone else's as I think people are the most complex and interesting monsters of all. But I have definitely seen many a game where it never came up.

It doesn't matter how many are spellcasters, since it just takes up one spell sitting in your potentially usable spells. If no spellcasters are encountered, you use those 3rd level slots on another spell. It's not like you have to commit to it taking up an actual spell like it would have in a prior edition when you chose all spells in advance.

Garthanos · Jul 22, 2019

Maxperson said:
It doesn't matter how many are spellcasters, since it just takes up one spell sitting in your potentially usable spells. If no spellcasters are encountered, you use those 3rd level slots on another spell. It's not like you have to commit to it taking up an actual spell like it would have in a prior edition when you chose all spells in advance.

Nods I can see that... and even at 5th level for the wizard its one of potentially many. Put it alongside fireball or lightning bolt.

UnknownDyson · Jul 22, 2019

Maxperson said:
I don't care for it. I personally dislike spells that people feel that they have to have, as that limits creativity and diversity in spells. When it comes to encounters, any caster than can have it generally does have it, on both sides. Combat becomes counter-counter-counter until one side is out and then spells start happening. And if only one side has it, the other side is screwed if it has spellcasters.

I think that adds to the flavor of spell duels personally. I also like the fact that it is only available to arcane spellcasters. I agree that it could be made more interesting than just a spell shutdown, but in a magical world, counter spell and dispel magic are necessities. The goal would be to have it look like a cinematic spell battle like harry potter or some other magic heavy setting, unfortunately the players have to rely on the DM for that.

Garthanos · Jul 22, 2019

UnknownDyson said:
I think that adds to the flavor of spell duels personally. I also like the fact that it is only available to arcane spellcasters. I agree that it could be made more interesting than just a spell shutdown, but in a magical world, counter spell and dispel magic are necessities. The goal would be to have it look like a cinematic spell battle like harry potter or some other magic heavy setting, unfortunately the players have to rely on the DM for that.

How about my idea... make it a bit more iffy against lower level spells and give whiplash effects even a small amount of damage d4+spell level? of a type related to the spell countered. (if any) or a type opposite.

And conversely when I fail to counter it i might take a small amount of damage of the opposite type maybe?

I brought up the original Chainmail to show both heritage and that the flavor of caster vs caster is ummm solid in foundation.