D&D 5E Forget about the treasure and pricing system of 5E!

Kudos for this Topic.

It came up a few times in the Forum, already but as part of other Topics like e.g. silver instead of Gold, realistic item costs (for regular items).


The way i resolved it and it works great that way is not to do Magic item shope but:

1. Silver instead of Gold.
That goes for the Prices as well, if you are lazy take the phb Prices and submit silver instead of Gold it gets much more realistic.

2. Silver is dropped in small amounts by humanoid Mobs. A Level 1 Drops 1d6 SP a Level 4 might drop 4 d20 or whatever you are in the mood for apply rule 0 but be bit greedy

3. No treasure hoards by the book! A treasure of 1000 gp (in my campaign would be 20000 sp bec i do 20 SP = 1 GP) is a treasure of an adult Dragon ffs. And if you Need plate mail you pay 800 sp for that.

4. for the later stages if the Party gets rich give them other stuff to buy: ships coaches Mounts war machines etc etc

5. Concerning Magic items: mage scrolls: yes any do 100SP * Level of the spell ^2 that is a Level 1 scroll is 100 sp a Level 3 is 900 sp a Level 9 is 8100 sp. healing pots: the normal ones are 25 sp and do 2d4+2 like in the phb then do some better ones but make them not available in large quantities like 4d8+4 but costing 250 sp

There you go Problem solved. Do not go by the book for this one except you are running AL, then i guess you have to. Question how free is a dm in AL to adjust These things? Just for my scientific interest, i am living in europe so no AL for me anyway.

[MENTION=6871450]Wulffolk[/MENTION] exactly, that tends to get overlooked also you gotta carry your stuff out of the dungeon. If you are of those DMs who say oh no i do not want to houserule this in a reasonable way but i want to go by the book and not alter official hoards then just use the official encumbrance rules also!sorry cannot cite proper on this machine and formatting goes pear also i refer to your reply on page 4 or so of the thread

Matrix Sorcica said:

I agree with your entire post except this. Doing what you suggest removes loot as a motivator for adventurering, which has been part of the game for all editions of the game ('cept 2E, I think).

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You can still adventure after treasure. Its just that the amount of it depends on the setting, or the particular adventure, not the level.

coroc does bring up a good point. How are you getting all the loot to a safe place. Nodwick can only work for one party at a time.

pming said:

Hiya.

Hmmm...ok, perhaps in stead of rules for buying magic items, there was a "training" rule/system for downtime? Where a PC could seek out a tutor, ancient master, renowned school, etc and simply pay X number of gp's to get Y number of XP in Z number of (time-factor)? It could be relatively simple, like having the training be divided into quality; Poor, Average, Good, Excellent, where you would have a ratio of Gold to XP to Time. That way the DM still gets to control the level of "magic" in his/her world, and players now have a trade off of either taking game-time and spending gold to get some more XP, or using that gold to buy a keep/warhorse/ship/whatever.

^_^

Paul L. Ming

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Ok Paul, 1E had a training cost rule. It was about 1,000 gp per week with the dm decided on how good of roleplayer you were. To update the idea. If your idea. Training quality (1-4) x gp. Time is 1 week per quality.
So Poor trainer (4) x 500 gp = 2000 gp to go up a level. Time is 4 weeks for poor trainer. So excellent (1) is 500 gp and 1 week.
The DM and group will have to decide can you bank xp. Bob is currently 3rd but has enough to go up to 5th.
Or can a person train later. Training later is just an accounting thing once the pc gets back in town.
Self training is double the gp cost and random roll on d4 or d6, or d8.

Treasure is such a headache for me as a dungeon master with no time between sessions that I simply avoid awarding much of it. I rarely use published modules, but even when I do, I ignore the written treasure unless it is particularly interesting. I do however like to throw in weird stuff to puzzle and gratify the players.

As for gold, I just adjudicate whether a player can buy or pay for something according to an approximate wealth level. Hardscrabble beginners or a party down on its luck can hardly afford a night at an inn; successful adventurers do not worry about daily expenses or renting mules or buying mundane equipment; parties that receive notable rewards from the powers that be can live like lords.

No magic shoppes in my 5E game however since items are unnecessary for battlefield success.

Ok. You could bring back the city state coinage thingy. Aka a money changer. All coinage must be turned in to the money changer and the fee is 2% to 25 %. You could get more charts with how old the coins are and how far from issuing city state. (What Starbucks? Bill this here CapnZapp wants to trade in Starbucks! CapnZapp on the Sword Coast they trade evenly. But we are in the heart of Chult! We give you 2 silver per gold.)
Different locations and seasons mean different prices.
(what the sam heck! Honey child Zapp yall said your name was. The dino omlet is $100 gp here in Houston. But now you want Pace Picante Salsa on it. That be another $100 gp. We all don't do New York City Salsa in this here parts).
Time is also a factor if you not buying off the rack. It be 2 weeks and 2 gp to have the Dapper Dan Silvering on you short sword hon.
Certain merchants regardless on how well Jasper rolls on the dice will not sell to people.
We don't serve those kind in here. Now how many power converters did you want to buy for you uncle, Luke.
Also remember just because a price is listed. And a price cap/limit is set does not mean a pc can buy as much as he wants of one product. aka Hong's chicken.
The prices for everything have always been an afterthought. Everyone recognizes this.

jasper said:

Ok Paul, 1E had a training cost rule. It was about 1,000 gp per week with the dm decided on how good of roleplayer you were. To update the idea. If your idea. Training quality (1-4) x gp. Time is 1 week per quality.
So Poor trainer (4) x 500 gp = 2000 gp to go up a level. Time is 4 weeks for poor trainer. So excellent (1) is 500 gp and 1 week.
The DM and group will have to decide can you bank xp. Bob is currently 3rd but has enough to go up to 5th.
Or can a person train later. Training later is just an accounting thing once the pc gets back in town.
Self training is double the gp cost and random roll on d4 or d6, or d8.

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I was never a big fan of training costs or time. PCs come to life in D&D already trained as a 1st level character. They've gone through their basic training and are now in the s**t. Audie Murphy didn't spend huge amounts of money and time to go from a flyweight buck private to a Medal of Honor hero, after all. He was in action with his unit every day, becoming a veteran through combat experience. I tend to think the same for D&D characters.

pming said:

The gist of his rant, from what I read, is this: I can't spend money to buy magic items so I can kill stuff better to get more gold to buy more magic items. 5e D&D isn't anything like computer rpg's!

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It doesn't specifically have to be magic items (in 1e, a big chunk of it was training, for instance), and the point is that 5e isn't like all past editions of D&D in having treasure reliably feed back into character advancement. Because that's a D&D thing that CRPGs &c have imitated (or arrived at via convergent gamevolution, if you prefer).

Character advancement has always been a huge part of D&D, and 5e does back away from it on two fronts: BA, in the form of muted, identical 'proficiency' instead of more rapid or varied advancement, and no 'assumed' magic items (no wealth/level or make/buy) or other progression of gear with level.

Frankly, it's amazing it's gotten away with it to the degree it has...

CapnZapp said:

Now tell me exactly why the withdrawal of a great feature is somehow not something we are allowed to take WotC to task for, and do explain why players are "lazy" for not wanting to take on this herculean task by themselves (the fact that nobody has offered a comparable 3PP system does suggest it is a very large work)?

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... my theory is that 3e & 4e made the magic-item portion of advancement to obvious (and, in the case of 4e, too nearly-balanced), it was one of those 'seeing the strings' issues that got built up during the edition war, and 5e felt the need to get away from that. 5e magic items are back to ranging from meh to game-breaking and fairly arbitrary in their ability to do things characters just can't otherwise - so very familiar and 'feeling really magical' to those of us who formed our vision of D&D in the TSR era - the fig-leaf that covers that imbalance is that they are, again, like the TSR era, the DM's to dole out, not the players' to make/buy.

You can have 3e magic items that mostly just replicate spells the maker could cast anyway (even if that can be quite a lot of power), or 4e magic items that factor into lockstep scaling, and have robust wealth/level guidelines and a workable make/buy system, or you can have character-re-defining and campaign-wrecking magic items, and make them the DM's responsibility, so when they wreck his campaign, it's his own damn fault, and he should just throw some Disenchanters or something at the characters.

But 3e/4e wealth/level & make/buy with 0e/AD&D/5e items? Might as well nuke your campaign world from orbit.

pming said:

Hmmm...ok, perhaps in stead of rules for buying magic items, there was a "training" rule/system for downtime? Where a PC could seek out a tutor, ancient master, renowned school, etc and simply pay X number of gp's to get Y number of XP in Z number of (time-factor)?

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That'd be a more detailed, possibly more interesting version of old-school 'training costs' to level. (4e had a system of alternate rewards, boons, and 'grandmaster training' that leveraged it's magic-item cost system to provide something along those lines, already - it's workable, but they were along the lines of neatly-balanced, not-really-magical benefits of D&D items, which is probably fine for 'special training').

It is the kind of thing the complainants are bucking for - as it does feed treasure back into the character's capability, keeping the D&D advancement dynamic rolling.

Nevvur said:

Ya, there does seem to be some nostalgia behind the complaints.

In any case, arguing whether the exclusion of said system constitutes a failure by WotC isn't productive...

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Arguing against it certainly isn't. ;P Semi-seriously, 5e /is/ supposed to be for fans of all past editions, but, when it comes to magic items it's very much for TSR-era fans, and can't readily be tweaked to match WotC-era expectations.

So, yeah, nostalgia is at the root of it.

Here are some ideas for ways PCs could spend their money:

100 gp/minute, 1,000 gp/hour, or 10,000 gp/day: Engage the services of a celestial, elemental, or fiend to aid your party.

1,000 gp: Create a magical trap. When triggered, it deals 10d10 damage (Con save for half) within a 60-foot radius.

1,000 gp: Create a permanent magical ward on an area. It blocks out celestials, elementals, fey, fiends, and undead, and produces one additional effect throughout the area such as resistance or vulnerability to a specified damage type, darkness, light, etc.

1,000 gp: Resurrect someone who's been dead up to 100 years, with some temporary penalties.

1,000 gp: Create a 24-hour ward in an area against teleportation and planar travel. The ward can also be set to damage celestials, elementals, fey, fiends, and/or undead that try to enter.

1,500 gp: Create a magical duplicate of one of the PCs. The duplicate has half hit points, doesn't come with gear, and can't heal or be resurrected, but is otherwise identical and absolutely obedient.

Now the kicker: All of these are in the Player's Handbook already. They are, respectively, the spells planar ally, symbol, forbiddance, resurrection, hallow, and simulacrum. High-level spellcasting is expensive, yo.