Zardnaar
Legend
The recent thread on if WotC will do a high level adventure got me thinking. Over the years I have run a few for various editions and/or designed my own. A few of them have turned up in Dungeon Magazine all the way back in 1E through to the Savage Tide AP in the dying days of 3.5/Dungeon in print. I have around 400 D&D items to play with + retroclones. The problems with high level D&D are numerous and mostly they boil down to power creep and this is also true in 5E (and in 4E, and 3E, and AD&D etc). One book that has aged well in this regard is the High Level Campaign book form 2E.
http://www.rpgnow.com/product/16866/Dungeon-Masters-Options-HighLevel-Campaigns?it=1
Generally magic gets the blame and its true that is one isse but in 5E you have high level fighters potentially action surging for 7-9 attacks a round and even in AD&D I have seen a high level fighter kill a Marilith, Lich and Dragon in 3 rounds more or less solo (Bracers of the Blinding strike+ 14th level fighter+ weapon specialisation). 4E tried solving the problem in a different way but created new problems in terms of combat length.
Inexperienced DMs often throw more and more bodies at adventurers which can work but often feeds them to AoE abilities and can overwhelm them and/or turn combat into a chore/grind. The Monster Manual also does not have a large amount of higher CR critters either. Personally I would recommend buying the Tome of Beasts from the Kobolds, the 2E High Level Campaign PDF.
5E also does not handle high level play that well IMHO. Its easier to run but IDK if the game actually runs that much better than say 3E and I would argue that it runs worse than AD&D and definitely worse than BECMI or at least the B/X and BEC part of it. If you played 3E like AD&D its similar. Problems with high level 5E include the CR system being a bit wonky, some spells, nova ability on some classes, combos, the -5/+10 feats, the saving throw system and the high caster level+low CR numbers of NPC spellcasters. For example NPCs that can lob fireball and lightning bolt starts at CR 3 and CR12 included NPCs that can cast as level 18 casters and have access to foresight. Stick Foresight on something like a Giant or other brute and throw that at the PCs or have a banishment spell used in a level 7+ spell slot for some fun and games. Other problems are reasonably static ACs for the PCs, 20 AC might be good but a few thing in the MM have +12 or more to hit, if you give the PCs +3 armor then you obsolete lower CR critters that will start to struggle to hit.
Anyway here are some things you can do.
1. Limit the magic items. It is reasonable for high level PCs to waltz around in magical armor+weapon+ a few other items and the WotC APs support this. +1 equipment RAW can turn up level 1+, +2 level 5 and +3 level 11+. However you do not have to make it the best equipment available (generally greataxes/swords, rapier, longswords, longbows, hand crossbows, polearms). A +3 suit of chainmail for example AC wise is equivalent to +1 plate so perhaps it can make you resistant to necrotic or fire damage as an additional property. A PC with the Great Weapon Master feat might have to settle for using a longsword 2 handed on occasion. A PC using the sharpshooter feat might have to make do with a magical shortbow or have a limited amount of magical arrows. Its a fine line to walk just be aware if you enable the power gamers don't be to surprised if you have trouble running games. FOr example if you hand out a +3 pole arm and Girdle of Giant strength (24) and one of your PCs has Polearm Master+ Great Weapon Master combo don't be to surprised of you see them action surging for 7 atacks a round and +20 damage from level 11+. If you want PCs getting +20 damage per attack then its fine.
2. Change the Focus
Designing high level combats can be difficult. You can focus more on the exploration and social pillar. IN old D&D for example high level fighter lead armies into battle where personal combat power doesn't matter as much. Give xp for exploring hexes and instead of exploring the Isle of Dread you can explore a layer of the Abyss.
3. Environmental hazards.
The classics are fire and water. OSR Dungeons often had a pool of water which present a drowning hazard or at least difficult terrain. Magma (White PLume Mountain, Princes of the Apocalypse etc) or steam vents (B5 Horror on the Hill) is also another option. At higher levels of course you can have pit traps into the magma and you can put things like Fire Elementals or red dragons in the lava or nearby. Out of the Ashes (Dungeon 17) had the adventure in a giant crystal floating over a magma lake. Nemesis (Dungeon 60) had an ocean of poison on an Abyssal plane (type E save or die, if you make it 20 damage).
4. Instant Death
5E doesn't use instant death as such but it has jacked up the damage on some critters. I have used instant death effect poison for example but it only reduces you to 0 hit points. A few things like Power Word Kill are still in the game though. Falling into lava is still unpleasant. Have NPCs strike fallen PCs or have zone effects dealing damage or spells like flaming shpere to drive home the danger to PCs on 0 hp.
5. Traps
Combat may not work so well in 5E but traps make a nice diversion. See Tomb of Horrors for a trap themed adventure. For the higher levels you can also use overlapping traps. For example a favourite of mine is in Labyrinth of Madness. A teap there in 5E terms has a glyph of warding on a ladder that deals 16d6 damage, if you take more than 20 damage make a DC 30 athletics check or fall 80' (another 8d6) damage. You fall onto another trap that triggers power word kill and if it kills you animates the body as a Zombie.
6. Monster Combos.
You can always throw more mooks at the PCs or design smarter encounters. Several fire giants with a couple of flameskulls for example makes things a bit harder for PCs. 4 assassins and a pair of cleric type NPCs with access to hold person is another. The hold person spells paralyse PCs enabling both sneak attacks, advantage to hit and a free critical for double damage- 10d6+14d6 poison +3. Feel free to add a race onto NPCs- 4 Drow assassins +2 priestess of Lolth + hold person. Monster combinations ideally should make some amount of sense or be plausibly tied to the story if they are a little odd. Energy drain+ paralysis is also interesting.
7. Use Spellcasters
Obvious ones here but spell casters get AoEs and ways to bypass hit points and AC. War Rafts of Cron (BECMI, levels 8-12) hits the PCs with 4 triton spellcasters riding seahorses in an aquatic encounter. Each wizard can cast lightning bolt. Spellcasters capable of casting fireball and lightning bolt start at CR 3 in 5E so using 4 of them does not add that much to an encounter, at least in terms of the challenge creation rules. Flameskulls are CR 4. Most low CR stuff won't last long anyway so may as well get a nova strike out of them. Even using counterspell is annoying.
8. Location location location.
One can add environmental effects to various locations such as volcanoes, but this is more about the location itself. At a basic level you can do things like have combat on cliff faces and ledges. You can also use magical wards that reduce the effectiveness of things like fire, teleport, divination etc.
9. Don't be afraid to kill the PCs.
Death has never really been a career ending deal in high level D&D games. In 5E the effects of death have mostly been mitigated relative to older D&D. No loss of level or permanent reduction to con score. 5E is kinda easy mode where death is concerned. Be a bit more brutal/ruthless than you normally would even if you are using the same critters.
10. All of the above.
Mix and match any of the ideas above. 5E characters are fairly resilient at higher levels.
http://www.rpgnow.com/product/16866/Dungeon-Masters-Options-HighLevel-Campaigns?it=1
Generally magic gets the blame and its true that is one isse but in 5E you have high level fighters potentially action surging for 7-9 attacks a round and even in AD&D I have seen a high level fighter kill a Marilith, Lich and Dragon in 3 rounds more or less solo (Bracers of the Blinding strike+ 14th level fighter+ weapon specialisation). 4E tried solving the problem in a different way but created new problems in terms of combat length.
Inexperienced DMs often throw more and more bodies at adventurers which can work but often feeds them to AoE abilities and can overwhelm them and/or turn combat into a chore/grind. The Monster Manual also does not have a large amount of higher CR critters either. Personally I would recommend buying the Tome of Beasts from the Kobolds, the 2E High Level Campaign PDF.
5E also does not handle high level play that well IMHO. Its easier to run but IDK if the game actually runs that much better than say 3E and I would argue that it runs worse than AD&D and definitely worse than BECMI or at least the B/X and BEC part of it. If you played 3E like AD&D its similar. Problems with high level 5E include the CR system being a bit wonky, some spells, nova ability on some classes, combos, the -5/+10 feats, the saving throw system and the high caster level+low CR numbers of NPC spellcasters. For example NPCs that can lob fireball and lightning bolt starts at CR 3 and CR12 included NPCs that can cast as level 18 casters and have access to foresight. Stick Foresight on something like a Giant or other brute and throw that at the PCs or have a banishment spell used in a level 7+ spell slot for some fun and games. Other problems are reasonably static ACs for the PCs, 20 AC might be good but a few thing in the MM have +12 or more to hit, if you give the PCs +3 armor then you obsolete lower CR critters that will start to struggle to hit.
Anyway here are some things you can do.
1. Limit the magic items. It is reasonable for high level PCs to waltz around in magical armor+weapon+ a few other items and the WotC APs support this. +1 equipment RAW can turn up level 1+, +2 level 5 and +3 level 11+. However you do not have to make it the best equipment available (generally greataxes/swords, rapier, longswords, longbows, hand crossbows, polearms). A +3 suit of chainmail for example AC wise is equivalent to +1 plate so perhaps it can make you resistant to necrotic or fire damage as an additional property. A PC with the Great Weapon Master feat might have to settle for using a longsword 2 handed on occasion. A PC using the sharpshooter feat might have to make do with a magical shortbow or have a limited amount of magical arrows. Its a fine line to walk just be aware if you enable the power gamers don't be to surprised if you have trouble running games. FOr example if you hand out a +3 pole arm and Girdle of Giant strength (24) and one of your PCs has Polearm Master+ Great Weapon Master combo don't be to surprised of you see them action surging for 7 atacks a round and +20 damage from level 11+. If you want PCs getting +20 damage per attack then its fine.
2. Change the Focus
Designing high level combats can be difficult. You can focus more on the exploration and social pillar. IN old D&D for example high level fighter lead armies into battle where personal combat power doesn't matter as much. Give xp for exploring hexes and instead of exploring the Isle of Dread you can explore a layer of the Abyss.
3. Environmental hazards.
The classics are fire and water. OSR Dungeons often had a pool of water which present a drowning hazard or at least difficult terrain. Magma (White PLume Mountain, Princes of the Apocalypse etc) or steam vents (B5 Horror on the Hill) is also another option. At higher levels of course you can have pit traps into the magma and you can put things like Fire Elementals or red dragons in the lava or nearby. Out of the Ashes (Dungeon 17) had the adventure in a giant crystal floating over a magma lake. Nemesis (Dungeon 60) had an ocean of poison on an Abyssal plane (type E save or die, if you make it 20 damage).
4. Instant Death
5E doesn't use instant death as such but it has jacked up the damage on some critters. I have used instant death effect poison for example but it only reduces you to 0 hit points. A few things like Power Word Kill are still in the game though. Falling into lava is still unpleasant. Have NPCs strike fallen PCs or have zone effects dealing damage or spells like flaming shpere to drive home the danger to PCs on 0 hp.
5. Traps
Combat may not work so well in 5E but traps make a nice diversion. See Tomb of Horrors for a trap themed adventure. For the higher levels you can also use overlapping traps. For example a favourite of mine is in Labyrinth of Madness. A teap there in 5E terms has a glyph of warding on a ladder that deals 16d6 damage, if you take more than 20 damage make a DC 30 athletics check or fall 80' (another 8d6) damage. You fall onto another trap that triggers power word kill and if it kills you animates the body as a Zombie.
6. Monster Combos.
You can always throw more mooks at the PCs or design smarter encounters. Several fire giants with a couple of flameskulls for example makes things a bit harder for PCs. 4 assassins and a pair of cleric type NPCs with access to hold person is another. The hold person spells paralyse PCs enabling both sneak attacks, advantage to hit and a free critical for double damage- 10d6+14d6 poison +3. Feel free to add a race onto NPCs- 4 Drow assassins +2 priestess of Lolth + hold person. Monster combinations ideally should make some amount of sense or be plausibly tied to the story if they are a little odd. Energy drain+ paralysis is also interesting.
7. Use Spellcasters
Obvious ones here but spell casters get AoEs and ways to bypass hit points and AC. War Rafts of Cron (BECMI, levels 8-12) hits the PCs with 4 triton spellcasters riding seahorses in an aquatic encounter. Each wizard can cast lightning bolt. Spellcasters capable of casting fireball and lightning bolt start at CR 3 in 5E so using 4 of them does not add that much to an encounter, at least in terms of the challenge creation rules. Flameskulls are CR 4. Most low CR stuff won't last long anyway so may as well get a nova strike out of them. Even using counterspell is annoying.
8. Location location location.
One can add environmental effects to various locations such as volcanoes, but this is more about the location itself. At a basic level you can do things like have combat on cliff faces and ledges. You can also use magical wards that reduce the effectiveness of things like fire, teleport, divination etc.
9. Don't be afraid to kill the PCs.
Death has never really been a career ending deal in high level D&D games. In 5E the effects of death have mostly been mitigated relative to older D&D. No loss of level or permanent reduction to con score. 5E is kinda easy mode where death is concerned. Be a bit more brutal/ruthless than you normally would even if you are using the same critters.
10. All of the above.
Mix and match any of the ideas above. 5E characters are fairly resilient at higher levels.
But it was not really related to handling high-level games, it was more, well, getting away from rocket-tag and 'static' combats. If we did want to take 4e high-level playability to heart we could, it wouldn't necessarily mean having slow combats again, it probably would mean 'nerfing' casters to a tremendous degree, though, FWTW, and be beyond the scope of any reasonable 5e variant. :shrug:
