New Errata & Sage Advice Compendium (Sleep & Trance Are Fixed!)

It's not confusing on its own. The wording is fairly clear. Unfortunately, not unlike rules that operate slightly differently from other editions, people are getting thrown off by their preconceived (mis)understandings.

Juomari Veren said:

No. Your rest is done after 8 hours. Most creatures need to spend at least 6 hours sleeping, and have 2 hours to do something that they can do while seated. Elves only have to spend 4 hours "sleeping" in meditation, and can use 4 hours to do something simple while seated.

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No that is not what the new sage advice says at all.

New Rule
Does the Trance trait allow an elf to finish a long rest in 4 hours?
If an elf meditates during a long rest (as described in the Trance trait), the elf finishes the rest after only 4 hours. A meditating elf otherwise follows all the rules for a long rest; only the duration is changed.

An elf only needs 4 hours to get a long rest.

An elf has two options.

1) He can sleep like everyone else.
2) He can enter a Trance and get a long rest in 4 hours.

I feel like the elf trance rule was actually pretty clear as written, and the new sage advice now agrees with the text.

But it makes me wonder about creatures that don't need to sleep at all, like angels. How do long rests work for them?

Given these rulings, I continue to be happy with my decision to ignore Sage Advice completely.

CapnZapp said:

I find the new wordings incredibly confusing:


So... you must sleep for six hours? Even if you're an elf that doesn't even know how to sleep? And why do I need to do it for six hours, when my Trance ability talks about four hours?!?!

And what's this with a maximum of 2 hours light activity? What if your long rest has to take 9 hours? Does this mean the human needs to go back and sleep one hour more? Does it mean the elf cannot make do with 4 hourse of trance - since out of the five extra hours, "no more than 2" of them can be spent on light activity, that presumably means three more hours of trancing?!


So my rest is done after 4 hours after all?!

Why not simply bring up trancing explicitly right there in the long rest definition:

"A long rest is a period of extended downtime, at least 8 hours long, during which a character sleeps for at least 6 hours or enters a trance for at least 4 hours, and performs no more than light activity otherwise, such as reading, talking, eating, or standing watch."

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The elf trance ability is the specific overriding the general. And I strongly suspect you're not "incredibly confused" by it saying you need 6 hours sleep and no more than 2 hours light activity to add up to 8 hours. It of course means just that, and does not require pedantry of any kind to interpret it to mean if you rested for 9 hours that you'd need a 7th hour of sleep. You still only need 6 hours, and 2 additional light activity hours, to get it done no matter how many additional hours of sleep or light activity you engage in.

I always interpreted Lucky interacting with Disadvantage as: Roll 3 dice, pick two, you get the lowest of those two. That way it is of some benefit, you would obviously discard the lowest dice, but you would still be stuck with the lesser of the two remaining. Of course, Lucky with advantage would indeed turn into Super Advantage with this ruling. The new ruling makes Disadvantage become a benefit (other than the fact that you still can't sneak attack and such).

Here would be a simple way to do Lucky with Advantage (which aligns with the Sage Advice and RAW):
Roll 2d20 for Advantage: if you don't like either, spend a usage of Luck and roll another d20. For simplicity, you select the highest of the 3d20 [you would technically be selecting the highest of the 2d20 and then the highest between that and the last d20 = still select the highest].

Here would be simple way #1 to do Lucky with Disadvantage (fastest, simplest):
Roll 1d20, without spending a usage of Luck. Treat just having Lucky and the Disadvantage as cancelling. However, you got the benefit of the luck without spending it.

Here would be simple way #2 to do Lucky with Disadvantage (next fastest, next simplest):
Roll 1d20, after spending a usage of Luck. Treat using Lucky and the Disadvantage as cancelling. However, you have spent the luck without knowing if it was needed.

Here would be simple way #3 to do Lucky with Disadvantage (more legalistic in original RAW, slowest):
Roll 2d20 for Disadvantage: if you don't like the lowest, spend a usage of Luck. Keep the lowest die with its value [you are keeping this due to Disadvantage], and re-roll the [previously] higher d20. Take the better result of the two dice that show now [due to Lucky].

Here would be simple way #4 to do Lucky with Disadvantage (fast, simple):
Roll 2d20 for Disadvantage: if you don't like either, spend a usage of Luck and roll a third d20. For speed and simplicity, you select the middle result [the median] of the 3d20 [Note that this is not the same as the previous method; it is a slightly quicker but less legal means to an approximate effect, and it still makes a lot more sense than the current Sage Advice].

The new Sage Advice (as I read it) is basically treating the Disadvantage with Lucky as if it were Advantage with Lucky: basically always the highest of 3d20. That makes no sense.

pukunui said:

EDIT: I see that the D&D Conversions document has been updated to v1.01, but I can't actually see anything different at a glance.

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Per https://www.diffchecker.com/

Old: Rather than going through the work of full conversion, you may use published adventures from the first three D&D editions as they’re printed. You can “convert” during play using the guidelines in this section. Fourth edition adventures are usually amenable to quick conversion.

New: Rather than going through the work of full conversion, you may use published adventures from the first three D&D editions as they’re printed. You can “convert” during play using the guidelines in this section. Fourth edition adventures aren’t usually amenable to quick conversion.

Aside from the copyright date changing from 2015 to 2016, there are no changes in the document.

Thanks [MENTION=7635]Remathilis[/MENTION]. I had no idea that site existed. I'll have to bookmark it for future reference.