Avengers: Endgame SPOILER THREAD

Blue · May 7, 2019

I was talking to my wife (always smarter than I) about Thor's end. To her, it was like growing up in a small town and then getting out to see the world. Even if you were the mayor's kid and a shoe in to be mayor yourself one day, maybe you aren't happy with just that small town any more. Even if it's a pretty spectacular small town.

Umbran · May 7, 2019

Blue said:
I'm with you on this - I don't like all the backsliding of his character growth. He's doing what he always did, which would have been in character if he hadn't grown.

I think the character growth is still in place - growth does not mean, "consistent movement towards a management position". Sometimes growth isn't about changing what you do, but why you do it, for example.

Consider, Iron Man. He keeps on promising Pepper, "No more surprises." Does he stop with the surprises? He does what he always does. Heck, even after outright refusing to do what he always does (like, figure out time travel), he goes and does it anyway, and then he talks with Pepper and they both admit that even having done it, he can't throw it away - he *has* to go back and do what he always does....

There is a fine line between being in the groove, and being in a rut - and sometimes growth is about moving from the latter into the former.

(Ant-Man is the other, btu that's not as natural a pairing)

Hm. What's the classic "team up" combat move here? Ant Man shrinks down, Thor *thwaps* him with a hammer, and he takes off like a bullet, passing through three or four robots before stopping?

doctorbadwolf · May 7, 2019

Jester David said:
Just lobbing his responsibility to the strong female in his life so he can be an irresponsible man-child. He barely gave Valkyrie a choice.
Plus... how is she better suited to lead? She's just as much a warrior as he is (and has as much of a drinking problem).

It’s established early in the movie that she has been leading New Asgard for 5 years, already, and we see no signs of her drinking in the film.

Umbran · May 7, 2019

doctorbadwolf said:
It’s established early in the movie that she has been leading New Asgard for 5 years, already, and we see no signs of her drinking in the film.

Yeah. She had a problem in the beginning of Thor: Ragnarok. But her involvement in those events seem to have shaken her out of her rut.

Janx · May 7, 2019

Why are we still picking on Thor?

Yes, it would have been nice to see everybody get happy ending.

But the reality, actual drunks fall off the wagon a few times. People stumble. Thor might regress again or hasn't quite lost his wanderlust. Got a few things to work out, yet. He didn't actually figure out what he wanted to do from all of that movie, that was just him dealing with the problem that he got dragged back into.

Hemsworth said he was done being Thor, but here he is with a non-retired ending. So there we are. He'd have asked for an endier ending if he wanted it.

Besides, he'll change up the dynamic of GotG. Quill won't hit on him, because he's still pining over Gamora.

What would GotG been if Quill got the G back at the end? The same team-up we had in the last 2 movies. So now, the 3rd one will be different.

Blue · May 8, 2019

Umbran said:
Yeah. She had a problem in the beginning of Thor: Ragnarok. But her involvement in those events seem to have shaken her out of her rut.

Though as a bit of a continuity bobble - why didn't she lose to Thanos as well? Where was she?

End of Ragnarok she was on that singular ship with Thor, Heimdeil, Loki and the rest. Which is destroyed in Infinity War. But here's Valkyrie as well as Korg and Miek.

But yeah, she stepped up in the 5 years.

ccs · May 8, 2019

Blue said:
Though as a bit of a continuity bobble - why didn't she lose to Thanos as well? Where was she?

Off recovering from the beating she & everyone else - who wasn't already dead - on the Asgard ship took at the beginning of IW I'd imagine. There's not a lot of time passing from start to finish of IW....
So if you're not Thor or the Hulk, guess what? You don't get to heal up enough to play a part.

Nellisir · May 8, 2019

ccs said:
Well, in the movie I saw I clearly heard Bruce explain to the group how the IW loss was worse for him. He lost not once, but twice!

So I don't have to speculate or guess. Hulk was afraid. IW showed me the hulk getting his ass kicked & his later refusal to emerge. In EG Banner told it to me. What more do I need? Joe Russo sitting in the seat beside me personally explaining it?

That would highlight how the movie dropped the ball there, yeah.

I like Endgame. It's a good movie. I don't think Banner or Hulk (who existed as a functionally separate character until this movie - another victim of the snap) were well served by it. But it's a big movie with a lot of moving parts, and not every plot point could be knocked out of the park. It's still epic.

Umbran · May 8, 2019

Blue said:
Though as a bit of a continuity bobble - why didn't she lose to Thanos as well? Where was she?

End of Ragnarok she was on that singular ship with Thor, Heimdeil, Loki and the rest. Which is destroyed in Infinity War. But here's Valkyrie as well as Korg and Miek.

I vaguely recall they mention in that scene - as usual, Thanos killed *half* the people on board. We don't see the other half - I imagine Thanos shoved them into escape pods or something.

Of course, this shows Thano's logic issue - the Asgardians had just lost a small horde of people to Hel. The entire race fits on one ship now - not exactly a major resource-sink any more. They probably don't need their population cut in half at that point.

Umbran · May 8, 2019

ccs said:
Well, in the movie I saw I clearly heard Bruce explain to the group how the IW loss was worse for him. He lost not once, but twice!

So I don't have to speculate or guess. Hulk was afraid. IW showed me the hulk getting his ass kicked & his later refusal to emerge. In EG Banner told it to me. What more do I need? Joe Russo sitting in the seat beside me personally explaining it?

Yeah, this was pretty clear to me, too.

We can't speak to it from just folks here but... I am not sure enough people missed that to call it the movie "dropping the ball". If everyone was asking, "Wait, what was up with the Hulk there?" I'd see that. But... I have not heard such a chorus.