D&D 5E Starter Set Command Spell

Echohawk

Shirokinukatsukami fan
That's because you're not looking at p 69 of the Rules Compendium, which I posted, and which says "immortals", not "gods and angels", hence picking up devas.
The text I quoted is from page 69 of the Rules Compendium. The only sentence on that page containing the word "immortals" is the one I quoted, and it seems pretty clear that it is stating that immortals can understand any language, and not that everyone understand them when they speak Supernal. That ability seems pretty clearly limited to gods and angels.
 

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the Jester

Legend
That's because you're not looking at p 69 of the Rules Compendium, which I posted, and which says "immortals", not "gods and angels", hence picking up devas.

No, the RC specifies "gods and angels" too, on pg. 69. The quote that Echohawk posted is from the RC, as is the one that I referenced.
 

pemerton

Legend
[MENTION=1210]the Jester[/MENTION], [MENTION=9849]Echohawk[/MENTION] - my apologies, you are both correct.

The bit about immortals is not in the DMG at all, which conludes the relevant para by saying that "in general Supernal is a universal language." I had noticed the addition of the reference to immortals in the RC, becaues it affects my game (one of the PCs is a deva), and in the process of not adopting it for my campaign had not noticed that it was focused on universal input rather than universal output.

Does either of you (or anyone else) know why the RC draws this distinction between gods and angels for output, and immortals more generally for input?
 

Mistwell

Crusty Old Meatwad (he/him)
You're confusing preference with objective fact, Mistwell. One is not superior, they're different. You prefer one, that's cool, doesn't make it superior.

(Before you claim it and have to take it back, I don't prefer the other - I don't actually prefer either.)

I don't think it's subjective to say "being able to memorize a short meaning is better than having to reference a long form physical text". I do think that is an objective statement of fact. Now it's subjective if the short meaning conveys enough, or if the long text provides more meaningful information, and that sort of thing. But all things being equal, it IS superior to be able to easily commit something to memory than it is to have to reference it in a text, and I don't think that can be rationally argued with.

You've made a false equivalence, too, because you don't need to memorize just one spell, nor, really, is it as easy as you say to memorize spells accurately (decades of 2E and 3E shows me that!).

We're talking about one specific spell, and I was not equating it with any other spells.

I'd be fascinated to know how they're going to determine the bolded bit, and why you believe this is the "new plan". Is there a L&L to that effect or something?

As for "a better game", well, I think that depends how much you like house rules. Personally, my experience with them is very mixed. I sometimes like my own. I almost never like other people's. I suspect most people are similar. :) My favourite games have required few/no house rules, though, and I doubt that's coincidence.

I don't recall if it was an L&L or a tweet or an interview or live stream or what, but he definitely absolutely said it. They are only issuing errata if people say it's really necessary for their games and they want errata issued, and they will continue to survey people on such things after the game comes out. If most people are dealing with an issue just fine in their game without the errata, they won't release errata for it (probably just have an advice column on it somewhere).

This will, of course, drive the pedants of the world bonkers. But fortunately, I think the overwhelming bulk of players will like that policy.
 

the Jester

Legend
[MENTION=1210]the Jester[/MENTION], [MENTION=9849]Echohawk[/MENTION] - my apologies, you are both correct.

The bit about immortals is not in the DMG at all, which conludes the relevant para by saying that "in general Supernal is a universal language." I had noticed the addition of the reference to immortals in the RC, becaues it affects my game (one of the PCs is a deva), and in the process of not adopting it for my campaign had not noticed that it was focused on universal input rather than universal output.

Does either of you (or anyone else) know why the RC draws this distinction between gods and angels for output, and immortals more generally for input?

I suspect so that deva pcs can't have a universal language.

I do remember that there is some reference to the notion that Supernal can be heard in one's native tongue without qualifications, maybe in the MM or something. I wasn't even aware of the restriction until one of our players had a deva and took the feat that let him use it universally. Since then, I've actually been unable to find the reference that made me think Supernal's 'universal output' worked for everyone (though I've not looked too hard).

And no worries, I've been wrong before, too! :)
 

pemerton

Legend
I suspect so that deva pcs can't have a universal language.
My concern goes the other way - by the wording of the DMG, devas don't have any sort of universal language, but by the RC wording they get univeral input (but not output).

Btw, what is the feat that lets deva's have Supernal as a universal language? (I'm wondering why the deva PC in my game hasn't taken it!)
 

Echohawk

Shirokinukatsukami fan
Does either of you (or anyone else) know why the RC draws this distinction between gods and angels for output, and immortals more generally for input?
Not a clue. That bit really does seem to have been sneaked into the Rules Compendium out of nowhere. I can't find any other 4e source indicating that immortals (who speak Supernal) automatically understanding all languages.
 

Echohawk

Shirokinukatsukami fan
My concern goes the other way - by the wording of the DMG, devas don't have any sort of universal language, but by the RC wording they get univeral input (but not output).
As far as I can tell, it is only immortals who know Supernal that get that ability. And devas don't automatically start with Supernal, they start with "Common and a choice of two others". I probably wouldn't let Supernal be one of those other two languages unless there was a really compelling story reason.
 

pemerton

Legend
Not a clue. That bit really does seem to have been sneaked into the Rules Compendium out of nowhere. I can't find any other 4e source indicating that immortals (who speak Supernal) automatically understanding all languages.
It makes sense for gods and angels to have a univeral receiver to go with their universal transmitter (at least, that makes sense to me - and I had interpreted the DMG remarks about a "universal language" to imply as much). It's the generalisation to immortals, hence devas, that I don't get. And have not applied in my own game.
 

Echohawk

Shirokinukatsukami fan
Btw, what is the feat that lets deva's have Supernal as a universal language? (I'm wondering why the deva PC in my game hasn't taken it!)
It's from Dragon Magazine 374:

Remembered Mother Tongue
Prerequisite: 11th level, deva
Benefit: You can speak, read, and write Supernal. If you wish it, listeners who don’t speak Supernal can understand your words as if you used their native language.
 

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