D&D 5E Sidelining Players- the Good, the Bad, the Ugly, and the Poll

Jester David · Jun 29, 2017

GMforPowergamers said:
- I told this story in the other thread and was immediately set upon with quastions on why I didn't X or Y most I will answer here.
-1998, so no cell phone no internet access, no games to play
-GM had just shy of 10 years experience running games, and still today runs games, used same rules today more or less..
-My 7th level Wizard was near a door the rogue checked for traps, said found none, then fighter opened and all 3 of us hit by a spell effect
- My character had 20% Magic Resistence, and a save, I flubbed both and my character was imprisoned per the spell.
-we were half hour into the game, and mid dungeon.
- I waited 15 minutes, I knew game would run 4-5 more hours, then asked "is there anyway my character can get out, at all" The DM confirmed it was impossible until the party finished this quest, went back and got the NPC Archmage he plays and does a quest for him.
- I was not allowed an NPC, or a monster
- The DM was strict on no meta gamming
- The DM's rules were all character creation rolls were to be infront of him, and every weapon and non weapon slot needed to be OKed...so I could not draw up my new 1st level PC until game ended (remember 4+ hours from then)
- I excused myself, went up stairs asked his mom if I could use the phone, then called my then girlfriend who I drove a few blocks picked her up and went to a movie.
- To this day the DM in question (who I don't play with but still know and his wife plays in my 5e game) still thinks it rude I left.
- After the movie when I droped my girlfriend off I used her house phone to call the game to see if anything changed (I would go back if there was anything to do) and was told my character still had no way back to play...

this story (more abridged) was one of a few, the point I was trying to make (and spelled out many times) is that there are lots of work arounds with good DMs, but at the end of the day being taken out of play with no options sucks... it was in response to other stories of people being sidelined... I even explained sitting out even an hour wouldn't be so bad, but there was 0 chance of getting to play that night.

People not only agreed with the DM that I was rude but continued to say all the things they would have done... starting with being told to pull ut a smart phone and get on internet even though the 1998 date was in orginal story.

this spin off thread has the same story repeated multi times...and people in this thread continue to say I was rude I should have sat there quitly for hours because I was being punished

In that instance, yeah, you totally were NOT rude and it seems like you made a good call. The DM was rude and should have done something to make things fun for you, which is totally his job as a DM.
Such as playing monsters or a hireling. Failing that, letting you leave with a fist bump.

I've played with some terrible DMs too. The unprepared Convention DM, the one who didn't know any of the rules, extreme railroading and unfair fights, ones who can't speak above a mumbled whisper, nausea inducing body odour, etc.
I try not to let them set the baseline of my expectations. They're outliers. Anomalies in my gaming history.

I typically game with friends. People I want to spend time with. If I or they die fun will still be had. I don't need to take death off the table for things to be fun. I play D&D with them for the same reason I play Rockband and Cards Against Humanity with them. Because I like spending time with them.
The rest of the time I play, I do so in Pathfinder Society or Adventurer's League. And DMs there are certainly not going to care about pulling their punches. The fun there is the challenge, with survival being the victory.

Shasarak · Jun 29, 2017

It stills sounds pretty dumb to me, losing the game and still being expected to hang around afterwards.

It seems like something that only sports fans could truly appreciate.

Satyrn · Jun 29, 2017

Shasarak said:
It stills sounds pretty dumb to me, losing the game and still being expected to hang around afterwards.

It seems like something that only sports fans could truly appreciate.

Nonsense. Back when I played in a beer league, when (and it was inevitable, sigh) our team got knocked out of a weekend baseball tournament, we never hung around. Well, not around the diamonds. I might have been off in a nearby field drinking beer, but I was as good as watching a movie with my girlfriend.

Jester David · Jun 29, 2017

Although...
Did I mention that one time a PFS GM took pity on me, after I showed up unexpected for a game and got killed in the first encounter?
Level 1 cleric vs a wight and a couple skeletons. I step out and turn undead, shouting "Sarenrae commands you to eat a dick!" (I was watching a *lot* of Archer at the time.) Wight hits me and energy drain. Ded.
I animated as a wight. Like you do. The party had gathered around me and readied to attack. Ded again.

So the GM let my head remain animated. So I could remain "active" in a sack, mostly making snide comments about my former allies.
I wasn't *actually* playing. I never rolled a dice. Or took damage. But fun was had and I have a memorable story.

Hussar · Jun 29, 2017

To me the issue isn't what you would do. It's 100% about judging what others might choose to do and trying to justify that judgement by pointing at a poll.

Sadras · Jun 29, 2017

Jester David said:
Looking back on what has been said I'm guessing that GM4PG had some bad experience with a jerk DM who killed his character. Who penalized xp for out of game chatter. He then called home because cellphones didn't exist or he was too young for one (Uncertain).

Sucks to be him. But it sounds like the problem has as much to do with playing with a jerk DM in a hostile environment. Yeah, that doesn't sound like being killed there would be fun. It doesn't sound very fun to be non-killed in either. Toxic group be toxic.

Jester David said:
In that instance, yeah, you totally were NOT rude and it seems like you made a good call. The DM was rude and should have done something to make things fun for you, which is totally his job as a DM.

I've played with some terrible DMs too. The unprepared Convention DM, the one who didn't know any of the rules, extreme railroading and unfair fights, ones who can't speak above a mumbled whisper, nausea inducing body odour, etc.
I try not to let them set the baseline of my expectations. They're outliers. Anomalies in my gaming history.

The bolded part for emphasis and truth.
What PG4PG didn't mention in his summary is that said GM had a DMPC who rescued PG4PG's character sessions later from the spell-trap. So not only does he sideline the character/player - he then expects him to wait for entire sessions doing nothing! That truly is an anomally within our gaming hobby.

@lowkey13's poll and the previous thread are not really about poor DM's, but rather about the popularity* of our various playstyles. I don't believe anyone in either thread would condone the actions of that poor DM. We might disagree on save vs suck and the duration of sidelining, but we are certainly united against poor DMs.

*for lack of a better word

Hussar · Jun 29, 2017

What I find mind boggling here is why anyone would stay. If you're not having a good time and I'm DMing, why are you staying? Is it some sort of sense of obligation to the DM? For me, if you're not having fun at my table, I'd much, much rather you went and did something more fun. You owe me absolutely nothing. I am offering a game. If you aren't enjoying it, please, by all means, go do something more fun. If for some reason I've removed a character from play for an extended period of time, I'd probably tell the player flat out and offer to let the player go.

It's baffling to me that anyone would ever have any problems with a player who wasn't having a good time, politely excusing themselves and going off to do something else.

---------------- Edit to add a thought.
[MENTION=6688277]Sadras[/MENTION], you've repeatedly made a distinction between the notion that this is a playstyle thing and bad DMing.

To me, any DM who would sideline a player for an extended period of time (say 2 hours, although, to be honest, even 1 is probably pushing it) and then get expect that player to stay at the session and actually get angry or hurt or offended that the player politely bows out and goes off to do something else, is a bad DM.

That someone would choose to stay is perfectly fine. But, leaving is also perfectly fine. The fact that a DM would get offended to the point of possibly consider booting the player from the group (which was at least one of the reactions from the other thread) is a DM I never, ever want to sit at a table with. Anyone who takes their game that seriously is someone I will not enjoy playing with.

Lanefan · Jun 29, 2017

GMforPowergamers said:
I have no idea what twilight Imperium is, but I have never had a risk game last more then 2 hours...

side note

Twilight Imperium, from what I understand, is a boardgame that pretty much takes a full day to play through; but if things don't go your way you might find yourself wiped out in an hour or less.

/side note

Lanefan

Lanefan · Jun 29, 2017

One thing I've learned over the years: if a character's out of action seemingly for the long haul and its player takes the opportunity to leave early, it's almost ironclad guaranteed that a way for that character to return will rear its head within minutes of the player's departure...

Lan-"at least we have cell phones these days, so the player can be advised of the situation right away"-efan

Shadowdweller00 · Jun 29, 2017

Here's the thing about games I run. I like tactical wargaming. And I want to present a sense of reality - of verisimilitude - because I think it leads to better stories and more dramatic play. And to really get that across there needs to be consequences. HOWEVER - I also enjoy roleplay, and want to encourage my players to roleplay out character flaws and misconceptions about the game world from the POV of their respective characters because I think those too lead to better stories and more dramatic play. At least as long as these flaws don't get too obnoxious. But character flaws lead to problems and occasionally even character deaths. The last thing I would ever want to do is to punish a PLAYER for roleplaying out a CHARACTER's personal flaws. Being sidelined for too much time, IMO, has the potential to do just that.

To me, the social contract involves balancing face time / action between characters. I expect both as DM and player that face time is more or less roughly balanced between the players if one or more goes off on their own for some sort of side quest or errand. As a DM, if an individual character goes off and tries to pull an encounter that lasts too long, I start to ask the other players what they're up to or I start inventing encounters for them if they're being too passive. Because I don't think a session where a single or limited numbers of players take all the face time is fair or fun for the others. Same principle really applies to characters sidelined from in-game consequences. I try to speed things along so the sidelined players still get their own share of face time.

D&D 5E Sidelining Players- the Good, the Bad, the Ugly, and the Poll

Is sidelining players a viable option in your 5e game?

Yes. Bad things can happen to players, and the game goes on.

Yes. But only because the DM has alternatives to keep the player involved.

No. The game is supposed to be fun, and not playing is not fun.

I am not a number! I am a free man!

Jester David

Hero

Shasarak

Banned

Satyrn

First Post

Jester David

Hero

Hussar

Legend

Sadras

Legend

Hussar

Legend

Lanefan

Victoria Rules

Lanefan

Victoria Rules

Shadowdweller00

Adventurer

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