D&D 5E Sidelining Players- the Good, the Bad, the Ugly, and the Poll

[Caliban]

...Not playing doesn't mean you can't enjoy the story.

It also doesn't mean you will. Different people enjoy different things. Generally, we will be talking about gamers, not professional writers or actors.

If you have watched other people play video games, gone to a movie, or read a book... you are likely aware of this fact.

Or you quickly get bored watching other people play a game. I don't enjoy most "Let's Play" series. They are just boring. But, I watch movies and read books a lot. The difference being that books and movies are created to be experienced as an observer.

Usually, Its the "I want to be the center of all attention" players that complain about sitting out.

You sure about that? I mean, do you have a study or survey that supports this position? You sure you aren't using biased language to support your own position?

Perhaps it is "usually" the players that are easily bored, or "usually" the players that don't like feeling excluded, or "usually" the players that play support characters and feel like they are letting the team down if they aren't there to back them up. Or none of the above.

In that case it can be good for the group, letting some other players get a chance to shine.

In the specific case of a "center of attention" player, sure.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

We're talking about someone at the game table. They very likely had no plans, BECAUSE THEY'RE AT A GAME. And said significant other likely had plans as well.

so you haven't read anything about the game...you are just making up.

it at this point has gotten to the point where someone says "Man I just got car jacked" and your answer is "Did batman stop it...batman stops crimes" and the only answer I have is "Why are you making things up instead of talking about what happened?"

And then the character dies and rather than watch and hang out, the player would rather leave. Watching the game is apparently so horrible they'd rather walk away than spend a minute there.

well in retrospect the game WAS horrible, but at the time I was new to playing and didn't know it, and even a bad game has cool parts. If given the option back then of play or not play I would take play 9 out of 10 times...

if they knew there was something else going on. Or if they were really behind at work and could barely justify gaming already.
But that's a pretty unlikely.

please try to go back and read WHAT ACTUALLY HAPPENED

 

[Shasarak]

Really? That's why the thread was created? Let's ask the person who created this thread!

"Self, why did you create this thread?"

"Well, self, I created this thread because the other thread had devolved into arguments, and I was genuinely curious as to how other people played! I said, let's have a poll to get the pulse of enworld, and say .... hmmm... 'What does everyone think about sidelining players?' And that way, instead of focusing on a particular anecdote shared by one person, it could become a discussion about how people actually run/play at their tables."

So you created another thread because you wanted two thread to argue in? Fair enough.

 

[Jester David]

so you haven't read anything about the game...you are just making up.

it at this point has gotten to the point where someone says "Man I just got car jacked" and your answer is "Did batman stop it...batman stops crimes" and the only answer I have is "Why are you making things up instead of talking about what happened?"




well in retrospect the game WAS horrible, but at the time I was new to playing and didn't know it, and even a bad game has cool parts. If given the option back then of play or not play I would take play 9 out of 10 times...

please try to go back and read WHAT ACTUALLY HAPPENED

Where would this story be? There's 190+ posts here. And potentially and equal number in the thread that spawned this discussion.
I have not seen that post and have no idea what you're talking about.

 

[Shasarak]

What about when you go bankrupt in Monopoly? Or lose your armies in Risk?
There are LOTS of games that keep going to the last man standing.

It's not ideal to sideline a player. Not is it ideal to miss for an entire session because your dice hate you, but I don't think missing should be removed from the game.
If we removed everything that left one player bored and uninvolved at the table there wouldn't be much left in the game...

Just wondering if I went Bankrupt when playing in Monopoly or lost all my armies when playing Risk, do I still have to stay at the table or would it be rude to excuse myself and go to do something else while you finish your game?

 

[Maxperson]

straw man [strô man] NOUN

1.an intentionally misrepresented proposition that is set up because it is easier to defeat than an opponent's real argument.

It was pretty clear to me that you wanted me to speculate in a way that would make it easier for you to discount my original point since you were having a pretty rough time doing so based on what I originally posted. That speculation would have misrepresented that original point in my opinion thereby creating a strawman so I chose not to play. I suppose it was a little confusing for you (understandable after re-reading my last post) to comprehend since I would have been creating a strawman to be used against myself when traditionally a strawman would be used to argue against the opinions of others.

ROFL You can't invent arguments for me that never happen, attribute them to me, and then call it a Strawman. You are only allowed to use arguments I actually made, and none of them misrepresented your position. Holy freaking cow. You commit a Strawman to accuse me of a Strawman. How about you understand what you read.

I did not speculate in any way in order to misrepresent your position. Your position had nothing to do with the act of character creation. Neither you nor your player would have had your brain twisted into knots, preventing you from coming up with that idea had you allowed your player to participate.

If you were paying attention, by the way, you would have noted that you are not the only one in this thread with your idea that number 1 is the way to go. I didn't respond to them like this, because they didn't use a ridiculous example to support them. I have nothing against you using option 1. If it works for you, fantastic. However, I wouldn't do that to one of my players. It's rude of me as a host to invite someone over to play a game and then make them sit for 4-5 hours not playing the game.

My only issue with your post was trying to link two things with no bearing on one another. That and your inability to recognize a Strawman.

 

[DaveDash]

We play two kinds of games. One is the rogue like heavy tactical game with very little RP. Sidelining, death, and unfairness is all part of that game. All the players of the game are on the same social contract in regards to that. There's no holding back, and where it makes sense the enemies are actively trying to kill characters, even focus fire the weak ones down.

We also play through the official WoTC modules which are more story driven. There hasn't been too many situations so far where sidelining has been a problem because we've always worked together as a team to try and prevent it, but I can see it becoming an issue.
We had one (former) player who did get quite grumpy about being 'sidelined' in one particular fight, but that player also didn't subscribe to the general social contract of how our group likes to play D&D.
He also built his character with the expectation that it would be godly in combat, and when that narrative was broken he got upset, so there's more to it than purely just being sidelined.

 

[Caliban]

Where would this story be? There's 190+ posts here. And potentially and equal number in the thread that spawned this discussion.
I have not seen that post and have no idea what you're talking about.

/facepalm.

 

[Jester David]

/facepalm.

Like you read every single post in thread before posting.

I read the first page and change. Really, possibly as much as 2-3 pages. I voted on the poll.
After doing so I decided to post my thoughts. And was immediately told my GM for Powergamers "This whole thread is turning into BULL you know what" while he quoted my comment.
Gee, thanks person I hadn't read a single post by in this thread.

I believe this thread is also a spinoff of the save or stunlock thread, which I never posted in. Never read anything there. Didn't seem relevant.

Looking back on what has been said I'm guessing that GM4PG had some bad experience with a jerk DM who killed his character. Who penalized xp for out of game chatter. He then called home because cellphones didn't exist or he was too young for one (Uncertain).
He then may have gone to a movie with his girlfriend. Or that could be a different time. Yeah. Cool almost story, bro.

Sucks to be him. But it sounds like the problem has as much to do with playing with a jerk DM in a hostile environment. Yeah, that doesn't sound like being killed there would be fun. It doesn't sound very fun to be non-killed in either. Toxic group be toxic.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

Like you read every single post in thread before posting.

I read the first page and change. Really, possibly as much as 2-3 pages. I voted on the poll.
After doing so I decided to post my thoughts. And was immediately told my GM for Powergamers "This whole thread is turning into BULL you know what" while he quoted my comment.
Gee, thanks person I hadn't read a single post by in this thread.

I believe this thread is also a spinoff of the save or stunlock thread, which I never posted in. Never read anything there. Didn't seem relevant.

Looking back on what has been said I'm guessing that GM4PG had some bad experience with a jerk DM who killed his character. Who penalized xp for out of game chatter. He then called home because cellphones didn't exist or he was too young for one (Uncertain).
He then may have gone to a movie with his girlfriend. Or that could be a different time. Yeah. Cool almost story, bro.

Sucks to be him. But it sounds like the problem has as much to do with playing with a jerk DM in a hostile environment. Yeah, that doesn't sound like being killed there would be fun. It doesn't sound very fun to be non-killed in either. Toxic group be toxic.

- I told this story in the other thread and was immediately set upon with quastions on why I didn't X or Y most I will answer here.
-1998, so no cell phone no internet access, no games to play
-GM had just shy of 10 years experience running games, and still today runs games, used same rules today more or less..
-My 7th level Wizard was near a door the rogue checked for traps, said found none, then fighter opened and all 3 of us hit by a spell effect
- My character had 20% Magic Resistence, and a save, I flubbed both and my character was imprisoned per the spell.
-we were half hour into the game, and mid dungeon.
- I waited 15 minutes, I knew game would run 4-5 more hours, then asked "is there anyway my character can get out, at all" The DM confirmed it was impossible until the party finished this quest, went back and got the NPC Archmage he plays and does a quest for him.
- I was not allowed an NPC, or a monster
- The DM was strict on no meta gamming
- The DM's rules were all character creation rolls were to be infront of him, and every weapon and non weapon slot needed to be OKed...so I could not draw up my new 1st level PC until game ended (remember 4+ hours from then)
- I excused myself, went up stairs asked his mom if I could use the phone, then called my then girlfriend who I drove a few blocks picked her up and went to a movie.
- To this day the DM in question (who I don't play with but still know and his wife plays in my 5e game) still thinks it rude I left.
- After the movie when I droped my girlfriend off I used her house phone to call the game to see if anything changed (I would go back if there was anything to do) and was told my character still had no way back to play...

this story (more abridged) was one of a few, the point I was trying to make (and spelled out many times) is that there are lots of work arounds with good DMs, but at the end of the day being taken out of play with no options sucks... it was in response to other stories of people being sidelined... I even explained sitting out even an hour wouldn't be so bad, but there was 0 chance of getting to play that night.

People not only agreed with the DM that I was rude but continued to say all the things they would have done... starting with being told to pull ut a smart phone and get on internet even though the 1998 date was in orginal story.

this spin off thread has the same story repeated multi times...and people in this thread continue to say I was rude I should have sat there quitly for hours because I was being punished