We saw a Star War! Last Jedi spoiler thread

pukunui · Dec 20, 2017

This article provides some insights into the bad audience score on Rotten Tomatoes: http://birthmoviesdeath.com/2017/12...t-jedi-and-its-rotten-tomatoes-audience-score

Mustrum_Ridcully · Dec 20, 2017

hawkeyefan said:
I thought Snoke...other than his name...was actually really cool. He was a larger presence in the first film than te Emperor was in Empire Strikes Back. And he was truly menacing and vile in this film. Probably on par with the Emperor in the throne room in Return, though with less time devoted to him.

Without taking the prequel films into account, Snoke’s about as fleshed out as Palpatine was in the original trilogy.

So I don’t really see the problem. Were viewers angry at the Emperor’s lack of backstory in the original movies? Or is such anger brought about by an elevated sense of expectation based largely on online discussion?

Of course they wren't angry that the Emperor didn't have a big back story. The setting was brand new, all we needed to know at that point was: "The evil guys have an Emperor!"

But now the setting is already established, the last time we saw the setting, the empire has lost and the heroes have won. But now, the heroes are in trouble and their accomplishments are undone? What happened, how could that be?

epithet · Dec 20, 2017

pukunui said:
This article provides some insights into the bad audience score on Rotten Tomatoes:

That article provides a lot of “educated” guesses. It begins with the conclusion that the negative reviews cannot be legit, and works backwards to create a theory that supports it.

Or, I guess those of us who were not at all pleased with the film could be imaginary. That’s probably it.

pukunui · Dec 20, 2017

[MENTION=6796566]epithet[/MENTION]: That's hyperbole and you know it.

Ryujin · Dec 20, 2017

pukunui said:
[MENTION=6796566]epithet[/MENTION]: That's hyperbole and you know it.

I'm not so sure that it completely is. The statement made at the beginning of the article is, "As I’m sure you’re aware by now, Star Wars Episode VIII The Last Jedi has an abysmal Rotten Tomatoes audience score which is in direct conflict with its high critics score. This by itself is rather unusual, but this is also Star Wars, the most popular movie franchise in existence, so it’s a big surprise that the conversation around the film isn’t just about its merits, but why so many people strongly dislike the film." If you follow Rotten Tomatoes at all you will see the non sequitur; critic and audience scores often widely diverge on that site. In fact it seems to be the rule, rather than the exception.

If you start with a flawed assumption, you are unlikely to come to a plausible conclusion. It's not impossible, but let's just say it's unlikely.

Derren · Dec 20, 2017

It was enjoyable, but nothing special.
There were several bad things in it, all of which have been mentioned here already. Some parts I liked like how Snoke went out or that Rey is not some special secret Skywalker.
I still have absolutely no idea how the political situation looks like or why the First Order is supposed to be a threat and I agree with Morrus as for why hyperspace bombing is not a default tactic against supercapital ships. Mass Effect had the same problem once that can of worms was opened.

But my number 1 nitpick is: Why have lasers in space a ballistic trajectory? Even for star wars physics that is silly.

pukunui · Dec 21, 2017

[MENTION=27897]Ryujin[/MENTION]: I was referring to his conclusion that the article stated that those with negative opinions don't exist. *That* is hyperbole, especially given that the article's author states on several occasions that he is not trying to invalidate legitimately negative opinions. He is merely trying to show that the overall audience rating of the movie might actually be higher than the audience score on Rotten Tomatoes would suggest.

Ryujin · Dec 21, 2017

pukunui said:
[MENTION=27897]Ryujin[/MENTION]: I was referring to his conclusion that the article stated that those with negative opinions don't exist. *That* is hyperbole, especially given that the article's author states on several occasions that he is not trying to invalidate legitimately negative opinions. He is merely trying to show that the overall audience rating of the movie might actually be higher than the audience score on Rotten Tomatoes would suggest.

Yes, that particular statement could be considered hyperbole, however, I still stand by my statement regarding the article's flawed premise

hawkeyefan · Dec 21, 2017

Joker said:
I agree that if you go into a movie expecting it to be something you're setting yourself up for disappointment. But for someone like me who has no reverence for the old movies and just goes into it expecting nothing more than to be entertained, it wasn't enjoyable.
There were so many cool concepts and stories and characters the movie touched upon but were never really developed.
How the Force works. That there's a military-industrial complex keeping the war going. How Snoke got to Ben. Where Snoke came from.
It's the missed opportunity with Kylo that bothers me the most. He got the most time to develop but it's missing the journey as the more I think about it, the more I think this is his trilogy and not Rey's or the rebel side. It bothers me that we don't see his developed any further. Him and his relationship with Luke and Snoke is missed.

I think the movie tries too much and the characters and story suffer for it. Finn is still an absolutely pointless character. Even if he is the cheerleader/girlfriend archetype and not a main hero, he's not around the main characters enough to fulfill his role.

Well, I disagree that it wasn’t enjoyable because I enjoyed it quite a bit. But I think the opinion that it was not enjoyable may be a valid one. As I said, the film’s not flawless, there are plenty of valid criticisms that could add up to being enough for someone not to like it.

That’s fine.

But I think that a lot of the negativity is based on what I would say are not valid criticisms.

hawkeyefan · Dec 21, 2017

Mustrum_Ridcully said:
Of course they wren't angry that the Emperor didn't have a big back story. The setting was brand new, all we needed to know at that point was: "The evil guys have an Emperor!"

But now the setting is already established, the last time we saw the setting, the empire has lost and the heroes have won. But now, the heroes are in trouble and their accomplishments are undone? What happened, how could that be?

I had no problem figuring out who Snoke was. Could they have given us more? Sure. And it’s possible we may learn more. Did they need to? I don’t think they did. They gave us enough to understand the situation.

As for the original trilogy heroes’ achievements being undone...I don’t agree. They brought down the Empire. They didn’t eradicate evil.

If the stories are going to continue, then there are going to be bad guys. And the bad guys will threaten the good guys.

As to why and how the First Order came to be, we have some clues. Again, they probably could have given more, but didn’t really need to. We’ll likely learn more of that backstory in the third film.