Chaotic Good Is The Most Popular Alignment!

Charlaquin · Jun 17, 2019

Maxperson said:
I disagree. Let's take a scenario where there is an evil dictator in charge of a country that a LG Paladin enters. In that country it's illegal to murder people. However, there is also a law that allows the dictator's personal guard to ignore that rule murder anyone they like. The Paladin is in the bar and the server accidentally spills an ale on one of the personal guard. In response the guard stands up and draws his sword to remove the head of the offender. The LG Paladin is going to step in and prevent the murder from happening, despite the law allowing it. He's not going to sit back and allow the murder to happen, then create signs and go with the rest of the party to protest outside the castle until the dictator reforms things.

I don’t know what part of what I said you think this disagrees with.

doctorbadwolf · Jun 17, 2019

Maxperson said:
I know they gave us time to download/copy threads. I wonder if some people here(or elsewhere) took advantage of that, and if so, are they out there somewhere to find.

I think there was an archiving effort here, and possibly elsewhere? Don’t know how much it got.

Maxperson · Jun 17, 2019

Charlaquin said:
I don’t know what part of what I said you think this disagrees with.

This part...

The way I see it, Neutral good ignores unjust laws, Chaotic Good fights to disrupt unjust governments, and Lawful Good works to reform unjust governments.

You specifically call out the Paladin stepping in to prevent that murder(ignoring an unjust law) as NG, and then state that LG works to reform the governments.

Psyzhran2357 · Jun 17, 2019

Maxperson said:
This part...

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You specifically call out the Paladin stepping in to prevent that murder(ignoring an unjust law) as NG, and then state that LG works to reform the governments.

Not who you were talking to, but I assume in a heroic fantasy context, by the time the Paladin is in a place to even dream of enacting those reforms, there are a lot of heads rolling around on the ground, most of them belonging to the LE tyrants. I'd be surprised if the incumbent administration didn't have to be removed by force. So the Paladin is still gonna go smite some fools.

Oofta · Jun 17, 2019

[MENTION=23751]Maxperson[/MENTION], you do understand that sometimes misunderstandings happen, right? My scenario was that the slave could realistically be freed and the way your response was phrased it sounded like the LG PC would not free them. That the only way to free the slaves was to overthrow the government and change the law. That until the law was changed, slavery should go unopposed.

Maxperson said:
LG: Slavery is unjust and the tyrannical government enslaving the people should be overthrown. New just laws against slavery should be instated.

While overthrowing the government may or may not be the LG thing to do*, in many cases it won't be possible. Freeing the slaves was possible. Forums are not always a great place to discuss topics, but when I say "I have no idea what you're saying" that's an admission on my part that, well, I have no idea what you're saying. Perhaps you should clarify before you start accusing people of constructing a strawman.

*As much as my LG PC may hate the tyrannical government they may not have a better option. For that matter, overthrowing the government will often be impossible.

Maxperson · Jun 17, 2019

doctorbadwolf said:
I think there was an archiving effort here, and possibly elsewhere? Don’t know how much it got.

I have no idea where they would be. Maybe [MENTION=1]Morrus[/MENTION] knows where the D&D Forum archive are, if they are here.

Charlaquin · Jun 17, 2019

Maxperson said:
This part...

You specifically call out the Paladin stepping in to prevent that murder(ignoring an unjust law) as NG, and then state that LG works to reform the governments.

You’re assuming that these statements of what each alignment does are meant to imply that other alignments can’t do those things. This was not my intent.

5ekyu · Jun 17, 2019

Maxperson said:
Unless you are a paladin, but that's tied more to the oaths, rather than alignment. It's just the the oaths tend towards a specific alignment or few alignments, so it's kinda sorta an alignment penalty mechanic to violate the oath.

As you say, the paladin is now tied to oaths. Oaths are given a set of rather clear doctrine/tenet elements and the GM and players are encouraged required to work together on specifics for that character specifically.

That is a vast improvement over the more blind 9verall LG vs others alignment of olde and paladin impact.

Maxperson · Jun 17, 2019

Psyzhran2357 said:
Not who you were talking to, but I assume in a heroic fantasy context, by the time the Paladin is in a place to even dream of enacting those reforms, there are a lot of heads rolling around on the ground, most of them belonging to the LE tyrants. I'd be surprised if the incumbent administration didn't have to be removed by force. So the Paladin is still gonna go smite some fools.

I agree.

Hussar · Jun 17, 2019

doctorbadwolf said:
You are literally the only person imagining an argument involving someone that is “100% reliable”, etc.

If you went back to the example I brought up that started this all, it was from a player who WAS 100% reliable then claimed to be CN.

doctorbadwolf said:
In all of this, you continue to miss the fact that no one arguing with you views chaotic/lawful as being a difference of reliability.

You seem to define CN as literally not a sane person. A person who cannot keep watch because they don’t really want to, even though not doing so could easily get them killed, isn’t sane. You aren’t describing a CN character, you’re describing a person with no agency over their own actions.

Are you kidding? Falling asleep on watch is not an uncommon thing. It doesn't make people insane. It makes them unreliable. My personal rest time is more important than your safety. Snore.