Tormenting Demons

UnknownDyson · Nov 4, 2018

Draegn said:
In one of the Castle Perilous novels there is a description of how an incubus can provide pleasure in ways a mortal cannot. An npc wizard had discovered a low level succubus hiding from punishment, created a ring to control her and used her as an information source to summon incubii and other beings to entertain a wealthy noble lady who paid for most of his research.

One of my players plays his mage as a person who only summons beings to do his bidding. (Similar to a conjurer adept from Shadowrun) discovered this and decided to take the ring as his own. He "failed" (failure is subjective to point of view) at several solo quests to find a way to take the ring through magic, including giving a charmed hireling to a green hag and becoming her lover, he decided to summon a being well beyond his control. Of course he thought he could control it. The succubus was rather persuasive.

During a siege the player calls upon the balor, the one being that owed the succubus a single debt which was called in. The balor turns on the npc, basically flays him and removes the hand wearing the ring. Both the player mage and succubus wrestle for the hand while the other two player arcane casters in the area are fouling their clothing as they try to rectify the situation.

The players managed to survive mostly due to one player making a deal with the balor. No one really got what they wanted in the end. Each lied to the other characters and npcs when the time came to recount their parts in the siege. Because the city was saved their actions were deemed to be good just accomplished in the wrong way.

That sounds like burn after reading.

neogod22 · Nov 4, 2018

cbwjm said:
Is it an evil act to torture a demon (or other evil outsider of choice).

On the one hand, they are horrible beings of evil. On the other hand, it is torture.

I'm watching Errimentari: The blacksmith and the devil. It's the only reason I'm asking.

Yes, torture is evil. This is a very slippery slope to go down. The people torturing may think they are doing things for the greater good, or the safety of the village/town etc. But what's actually happening is they are staining a d corrupting their own soul which is actually the goal of fiends. You start on this road. And it may feed you just a shred of useful information to make you think that what you're doing is good mixed in with a lot of bulls***, but it's playing a game on your psyche pushing you on by doing things like reminding you on how inadequate your technique is, or how an imp can inflict more pain.

Prakriti · Nov 4, 2018

My players tried to torture a devil once. They stopped when it started begging for more.

Sorcerers Apprentice · Nov 4, 2018

In many myths demons were originally angels or other higher beings who have been banished to the underworld specifically to torment them. So if it's evil to torture demons then there may be a lot of evil gods on the higher planes.

neogod22 · Nov 4, 2018

Sorcerers Apprentice said:
In many myths demons were originally angels or other higher beings who have been banished to the underworld specifically to torment them. So if it's evil to torture demons then there may be a lot of evil gods on the higher planes.

Which is one of the things that creates holes in religion.

neogod22 · Nov 4, 2018

Dioltach said:
How would you go about torturing a demon? By blessing it? Would that then be evil?

You can torture a demon. They feel pain and fear death like any other creature. The fear of painful torture and death is how more powerful demons control weaker ones. They don't fear mortals because the nature of outsiders. You kill them anywhere outside of their home plane, they just form a new body on their plane. The only way to permanently kill them is on their home plane.

But back to the question, 1st trap their soul to your location, just in case of accidental deaths, so they cant escape. Then you can proceed. I'm sure holy water dunking could be as effective as dunking someone's face in acid. Splashing small amounts of holy water can be really painful to them. Stabbing them with ordinary weapons should really bring on the same kind of pain as stabbing someone with a dulled weapon. I would imagine all demons are sadists, not very many or masochists. So while they enjoy torturing and killing other creatures, they don't enjoy it having it done to them.

Morrus · Nov 4, 2018

neogod22 said:
You start on this road.

I'm pretty sure torturing people is the *end* of the road to evil, not the start. The start is, like, shoplifting or something. I can't think of much worse you can do to an individual than torture them.

cbwjm · Nov 4, 2018

While watching Errimentari, I did feel sorry for the demon that was being tormented. It wasn't torture for information gathering (not that I really agree with that either), it was just tormenting it, perhaps partly in anger, but the tormentors seemed to take a certain glee from it. The demon was by no means good, it cursed and threatened and lied, but I still didn't feel like tormenting it was a good act.

Great movie by the way, would definitely recommend it.

Warmaster Horus · Nov 4, 2018

I'm not a fan of torture in the games I run. I rarely allow it to work the way the PCs want it to. Instead the victim tells the PCs what they want to hear. Then the PCs cast something like Detect Thoughts to see if they were told the truth and I let them know they could of done that to begin with using a less bloodthirsty & evil tack of questioning.

Oofta · Nov 4, 2018

UnknownDyson said:
A very important question becomes who decides who is evil and who is good. It might be clear-cut for the demon but what about the town blacksmith who's been accused of a grizzly murder? Are you going to torture him to get a confession? Everyone in the town now views him as evil, why wouldn't you?

First of all, torture doesn't work. People will simply tell you what you want to hear. Cause enough pain and people will say anything to make it stop so why would you believe what he said?

Second, it is evil and something I don't allow in my games. Even if it did work, the ends do not justify the means.

UnknownDyson said:
Another issue with selective moralism is the inherent hypocrisy of it. If demons become special entities that you can commit any depraved act upon without it being evil, it follows that one could seek them out simply for the ability to indulge in heinous behavior with impunity.

For instance, a wizard summons an attractive female demon and imprisons her for the purpose of fulfilling his lust. The demon does not enjoy her captivity and is routinely sexually assaulted by the wizard. Is this behavior condemnable, or does the fact that it's a demon change things?

Sexual assault, like torture, is evil. It doesn't matter who (or what) the victim is.

Tormenting Demons

UnknownDyson

Explorer

neogod22

Explorer

Prakriti

Hi, I'm a Mindflayer, but don't let that worry you

Sorcerers Apprentice

Hero

neogod22

Explorer

neogod22

Explorer

Morrus

Well, that was fun

cbwjm

Seb-wejem

Warmaster Horus

Explorer

Oofta

Legend

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