Cloud of Knives kills minions?

[KarinsDad]

But Cloud of Knives does not autokill minions.

Edit: Let's make this a bit clearer.

The "Effect" is part of the attack. The attack is a missed attack. Hence, no damage.

Corrected that for you.

The secondary damage of Cloud of Daggers is irrelevant to the miss.

It is damage. It kills minions. It is not due to a Miss, it is a damaging effect regardless of hit or miss.

Customer Service has concurred.

 

[SadisticFishing]

Rules for 'Effect' p59. You are incorrect.

Mind giving me a quote? I'm AFB at the moment.

Customer Service has been known to be wrong before. Can you use Lay on Hands on yourself?

 

[Caliban]

But if it misses the minion, it does not damage it, as missed attacks never damage minions.

The missed attack did not damage the minion. The zone effect the minion is in, however, is not a missed attack.

 

[webrunner]

It's a missed ATTACK POWER, but only the initial ATTACK is a missed ATTACK that doesnt damage a minion.

 

[SadisticFishing]

It's a missed ATTACK POWER, but only the initial ATTACK is a missed ATTACK that doesnt damage a minion.

That is a ridiculous definition, but I'm still waiting on that quote about "Effects". Wish I wasn't at work.

 

[Rith the Wanderer]

Mind giving me a quote? I'm AFB at the moment.

"Many powers produce effects that take place regardless of whether your attack roll succeeds, and other powers have effects that occur without an attack roll being required." -PHB p 59

The attack damage from Cloud of Daggers is completely separate from the damage caused by the one square zone created by it. It is not damage from a miss, it is automatic damage. The spell could be cast on an empty square (not attacking anyone) and the cloud would still be there, and if a minion wandered in, its dead.

 

[SadisticFishing]

None of that matters. Thanks for the quote, it proves my point.

Here are the premises:

A) Cloud of Knives is an attack.

B) Minions take no damage from a missed attack.

C) The fact that Cloud of Knives creates an effect does not change the fact that it is an attack.

Hence, if Cloud of Knives misses, the minion takes no damage from the Effect, as it is part of a missed attack.

 

[Danceofmasks]

Oh, and of course lay on hands works on yourself.
It's a replacement effect.
"you do not get a watch. Instead, the target gets a watch."
If you target yourself, it reads
"you do not get a watch. Instead, you get a watch."

None of that matters. Thanks for the quote, it proves my point.

Here are the premises:

A) Cloud of Knives is an attack.

B) Minions take no damage from a missed attack.

C) The fact that Cloud of Knives creates an effect does not change the fact that it is an attack.

Hence, if Cloud of Knives misses, the minion takes no damage from the Effect, as it is part of a missed attack.

Hang on, that is exactly the same as cloudkill .. so, according to you, cloudkill doesn't kill minions either?

 

[SadisticFishing]

Yeah, I agree. CustServ doesn't though. Well, sometimes it does.

The point of the question was as a response to the whole "CustServ said it works!"

Not if it misses.

If it were just Cloud of Knives, I wouldn't have made the post if Cloud of Knives was the only thing it mattered to

 

[keterys]

That is very curious logic. If it truly offends you, I encourage you to house rule things for your game. A lot of players don't like cloud of daggers anyways, so that will possibly just put a lock on the wizard not taking it, really removing the problem from your game.