Cloud of Knives kills minions?

[SadisticFishing]

That is very curious logic. If it truly offends you, I encourage you to house rule things for your game. A lot of players don't like cloud of daggers anyways, so that will possibly just put a lock on the wizard not taking it, really removing the problem from your game.

It is not curious at all. It is a straight forward reading of the rules.

My only assumption is that the effect is part of the attack. Which it is.

 

[Rith the Wanderer]

None of that matters. Thanks for the quote, it proves my point.

Here are the premises:

A) Cloud of Knives is an attack.

B) Minions take no damage from a missed attack.

C) The fact that Cloud of Knives creates an effect does not change the fact that it is an attack.

Hence, if Cloud of Knives misses, the minion takes no damage from the Effect, as it is part of a missed attack.

What if no attack roll is made? And then the Minion wanders in? Then its not a missed attack.

Or hey, lets say, Wizard Cloud of Daggers Goblin leader succesfully. Then Goblin lead leaves the cloud, and Goblin minion walks in? Does it take damage then? Its not a missed attack, in fact its still a successful attack by your logic. So this kills the minion, but all other applications of the cloud don't?

 

[Danceofmasks]

Effects are not part of attacks.
They happen regardless.

 

[Oompa]

Mind giving me a quote? I'm AFB at the moment.

Customer Service has been known to be wrong before. Can you use Lay on Hands on yourself?

Yes you can use lay on hands on yourself.. its target is Creature, and it costs you an HS.. To use it, it costs an surge but as you cannot undo the cost price the surge is lost..

It is indeed an bit weird descriped.. but i think its good.. the paladin is an character that helps others at his own cost..

 

[The Little Raven]

My only assumption is that the effect is part of the attack. Which it is.

No, it's not. The only entries that are relevant to the attack are the "Hit:" and "Miss:" entries. The "Effect:" entry has no relationship to the attack, because it occurs regardless of whether the attack is successful or not. Cloud of Daggers creates a zone (which is not an attack), which automatically deals damage upon one of two conditions (move into the square or start your turn in the square). No hit or miss involved at all in the zone.

 

[NorthSaber]

None of that matters. Thanks for the quote, it proves my point.

Here are the premises:

A) Cloud of Knives is an attack.

B) Minions take no damage from a missed attack.

C) The fact that Cloud of Knives creates an effect does not change the fact that it is an attack.

Hence, if Cloud of Knives misses, the minion takes no damage from the Effect, as it is part of a missed attack.

I'm not sure what the rules exactly say, but the zone-effect of Cloud of Daggers is an effect that is not tied to the attack roll hit/miss; it is not indented after the "hit" section. I'd say that that's why it still damages the minion - it's not a part of the "miss" section, which minions are immune to damage-wise.

 

[abyssaldeath]

It is not curious at all. It is a straight forward reading of the rules.

My only assumption is that the effect is part of the attack. Which it is.

Cloud of Knives is an attack spell. Being an attack spell has nothing to do with hit or miss. The miss portion of minions description is specifically referring to powers that have a miss portion like fireball (miss:half damage)or reaping strike (miss: half str damage). Effect is separate from hit or miss unless otherwise stated.

 

[The Little Raven]

I'd say that that's why it still damages the minion - it's not a part of the "miss" section, which minions are immune to damage-wise.

Well, there is no "Miss:" section under the spell, so the "minions don't take damage from a miss" has absolutely zero bearing on this power at all. It's a non-issue entirely.

 

[lukelightning]

Hence, if Cloud of Knives misses, the minion takes no damage from the Effect, as it is part of a missed attack.

So what would happen if you cast Cloud of Knives in an empty spot, and some minion enters and stays in that square?

 

[The Little Raven]

So what would happen if you cast Cloud of Knives in an empty spot, and some minion enters and stays in that square?

The minion dies, because SadisticFishing is reading it completely wrong.