Special Conversion Thread: Finishing off giants and their kin

[Shade]

Yeah, based on 90 years being "well into middle age", let's go with 150. Chislev sounds like a harsh place.

I'm fine with either dropping the swamp spit for infants, or noting that the CR is one higher than an ogre.

Updated.

 

[Big Mac]

Would adding the swamp spit to hill giants and ogres be worth a CR bump? I might suggest only adding it to juveniles, actually, partly to avoid this problem (it's less of an increase to a hill giant than an ogre).

...and...

I'm fine with either dropping the swamp spit for infants, or noting that the CR is one higher than an ogre.

What about giving the kids a spit ability that is less effective. If infants have smaller stomachs maybe they can spit but can't do damage. You could give them a Swamp Spit ability that doesn't do any hit points, but forces spellcasters to make concentration checks. (Try juggling material components and making complex gestures while a baby bosk giant spits half a pint of dirty water in your eye. )

Sounds like about 150-180 yrs.

...and...

Yeah, based on 90 years being "well into middle age", let's go with 150. Chislev sounds like a harsh place.

Don't forget that that age was for a swamp giant rather than a bosk giant. Swamp giants seem to be less agressive and more civilised that bosk giants. I'd expect them to live longer than bosk giants, especially with bosk giants sucking up and spitting out stagnent water all the time (that must be pretty bad for their teeth).

How about making bosk giants have the shortest lives (of the three giant races on Chislev). Swamp giants could have the medium lives and hill giants (who are a known quantity) could have the longest lives? I say we put in a 40 year gap between each race (i.e. bump swamp giants up to 160 years and drop bosk giants down to 120 years). How does that sound?

(Actually, I think we younger bosk giants would try to muscle in on the territory of older bosk giants who seem to be showing their age. I think that bosk giants should have no concept of "village elders" and venerable bosk giants should be dangerous homeless loners who stalk humanoids, steal their food and occasionally beat one of them up just to proove to themselves that they are still able to fight.)

 

[Shade]

I'm good with those age ranges.

I'd rather not make the infants do a different effect, but if you'd like, I'll keep the swamp spit with 1d8 damage.

Ready for the swamp giants?

 

[Big Mac]

I'd rather not make the infants do a different effect, but if you'd like, I'll keep the swamp spit with 1d8 damage.

I'm not massively attached to the spitting ability. I just thought that it was something people would expect to be there.

Maybe the infants have stomachs that are too small to allow them to spit water. Maybe the juvenile bosk giants can only spit once (instead of twice) because they can only store one shot in their stomach. Do you think a 0-1-2 mechanic might seem more like an evolving abilty or should they jump from 0 to 2?

Ready for the swamp giants?

YES!

 

[Shade]

Let's just leave it at 2 times for simplicity's sake. I figure the less damage could be attributed to less "storage capacity".

Moving on...

Giant, Swamp

CLIMATE/TERRAIN: Swamps, tropical forests
FREQUENCY: Rare
ORGANIZATION: Tribal
ACTIVITY CYCLE: Any
DIET: Omnivorous
INTELLIGENCE: Average (8-10)
TREASURE: D
ALIGNMENT: Neutral
NO. APPEARING: 1-3
ARMOR CLASS: 4 or 0
MOVEMENt: 12
HIT DICE: 15+5
THACO: 5
NO. OF ATTACKS: 1 or 2
DAMAGE/ATTACK: 1d8+9/1d8+9 or by weapon 2d6+9
SPECIAL ATTACKS: Hurl spears (1d10+9), spells
SPECIAL DEFENSES: See below
MAGIC RESISTANCE: Nil
SIZE: H (16' tall)
MORALE: Champion (15-16)
XP VALUE:
Infant: -5 HD 2,000
Juvenile: -2 HD 6,000
Adult: 9,000-10,000
Shaman: 10,000-11,000

Swamp giants are believed to have evolved ages ago from bosk giants. These smaller, stockier giants are more intelligent than the nearby bosk and have learned the rudiments of civilization.

Swamp giants have green skin and hair like the bosk, and therefore are quickly mistaken for their slow-witted cousins. However, there are differences. Swamp giants tend to wear their hair long, usually braided and festooned with ornaments collected from battle. Further, they have facial hair, which most of them keep trimmed.

A swamp giant's natural armor class is 4. However, many of the adult males wear the skin of young green dragons. This skin, cured in a manner known only to these giants, lowers their armor class to 0. Their coloration gives them a +3 chance to surprise opponents and a -3 chance to be surprised. Giants in green dragon armor have a +2 surprise bonus and -2 AC bonus. All swamp giants regenerate 5 hit points of damage per round.

Combat: Swamp giants fight only when they believe their territory is in danger. They prefer to reason with a foe first (with the exception of dragons). They often choose a leader when going into battle and follow his directions. They prefer to circle their quarry, using their coloration to blend into the foliage.

They begin their assaults with spells. Because swamp giants are so tuned to their environment, from birth they are able to cast entangle three times a day and plant growth once a day. A favorite tactic is to trap prey in a tangle of vegetation, then slaughter it with a volley of spears. Each giant can throw two spears per round.

Habitat/Society: Swamp giants prefer to live in trees, in simple homes constructed of wood and reeds. Of course, the trees they choose for homes are immense, usually at least 10 to 20 feet in diameter and 100 feet or more tall. They generally live peaceful lives, staying to themselves and interacting with the bosk only when their cousins wish to trade. The swamp giants are known for crafting wooden bowls, dishes, and other objects that the bosk covet.

When more than four swamp giants are encountered, they are a mated pair and infants or juveniles.

When encountered in their lair, there are 4d4 + 6 giants, one half of these adults. The remainder are infants and juveniles. An infant has 10 HD and has only a +5 damage bonus. A juvenile at 13 HD has a +7 damage bonus. If a village is threatened, the adults protect the infants and juveniles.

For every 10 giants encountered, there is a 30% chance one is a shaman, a giant who is the equivalent of a 1st-6th level druid. These shamans are respected in swamp giant communities and are often sought as advisors by the village leader.

All the villages recognize a king. He is considered the strongest and wisest of the swamp giants and other giants look to him to appoint village leaders.

Ecology: Swamp giants live off the land, hunting and foraging for food. Many of them grow a large, ricelike crop. They do not keep animals for food. Their favorite meat is the flesh of young green dragons. In turn, older green dragons like to hunt the swamp giants.

Originally appeared in SJR7 - Krynnspace (1993).

 

[Shade]

Comparing the 2e stats of the bosk and swamp giants, the swamp should have higher Str (translates to 2 points higher in 3e), Con, and Int (3 points higher). We might also consider raising Cha.

How's this?

Str 29, Dex 10, Con 25, Int 8, Wis 14, Cha 10


Note that the "special" dragonhide armor isn't so special anymore, since dragonhide is a core special material. That's one less thing to worry about.

 

[freyar]

I like those stats pretty well, but I'd like to bump Cha to 12 or even 14. These will have entangle as an SLA, and the DC boost would be nice.

 

[Shade]

Added to Homebrews.

All swamp giants regenerate 5 hit points of damage per round.

Fast healing 5?

 

[freyar]

Yeah. Not much else for these, is there? Skills should probably be split between Spot and Listen, since they're not surprised much. Alertness might be good as a feat, too.

 

[Big Mac]

Giant, Swamp

CLIMATE/TERRAIN: Swamps, tropical forests

...and...

TREASURE: D

This environment should have a bearing on the sort of equipment they make and the treasure they "drop".

ORGANIZATION: Tribal

...and...

NO. APPEARING: 1-3

Organization: Solitary, hunting party (2-3 giants) or village (x).​

DAMAGE/ATTACK: 1d8+9/1d8+9 or by weapon 2d6+9

You have the slam damage as 1d6+9. Shouldn't it be 1d8+9? (Or is there a general lowering of giant damage in the transition to 3rd edition?)

SPECIAL ATTACKS: Hurl spears (1d10+9), spells

Automatic proficiency with spears as well as hide armor (in the Swamp Giant Characters section)?

I think that a swamp giant should cast spells as a druid (worshiping the god Chislev). I'd even suggest druid should be the favored class of Swamp Giant Characters.

XP VALUE:
Infant: -5 HD 2,000
Juvenile: -2 HD 6,000
Adult: 9,000-10,000
Shaman: 10,000-11,000

Should we have blurb similar to bosk giants for infant and juvenile swamp giants?

I wonder if we should include separate stats for a Swamp Giant Shaman (like the Ogre Barbarian):

Ogre Barbarian
Their inherent bent toward chaos combines with their size and strength to make ogres natural barbarians. Indeed, their leaders are almost always barbarians of low to middle level, monstrous brutes whose fury in battle is truly fearsome. A raging ogre barbarian is an inspiration to other ogres.

Combat
Marginally more intelligent than his brutish fellows, an ogre barbarian is slightly more likely to enter a fair fight, but in general prefers the brutish tactics common to all its kind.

Rage (Ex)
Twice per day, an ogre barbarian can enter a state of fierce rage that last for 9 rounds. The following changes are in effect as long as he rages: AC 17 (touch 8, flat-footed 17); hp 95; Atk +18/+13 melee (2d6+16, +1 greatclub); SV Fort +14, Will +4; Str 30, Con 22; Climb +15, Jump +16. At the end of his rage, the ogre barbarian is fatigued for the duration of the encounter.

Trap Sense (Ex)
An ogre barbarian has a +1 bonus on Reflex saves made to avoid traps. He also has a +1 bonus to his AC against attacks by traps.

Uncanny Dodge (Ex)
An ogre barbarian retains his Dex bonus to AC regardless of being caught flat-footed or attacked by an invisible opponent. His Dex bonus to AC is +0, but this means that he is not subject to a rogue’s sneak attack in these circumstances.

I'd like to see a Swamp Giant Shaman listed as Chislev worshipping druids of low to middle level, with stats given for a 6th level druid swamp giant.

Swamp giants are believed to have evolved ages ago from bosk giants. These smaller, stockier giants are more intelligent than the nearby bosk and have learned the rudiments of civilization.

Hmm. So we copy the bosk giant if there isn't anything here (and could apply things from the swamp giant back to the bosk giant retro-actively if they looked better than what we just did). But we should give swamp giants more intelligence and a better civilsation. As well as making them shorter and fatter.

Swamp giants have green skin and hair like the bosk, and therefore are quickly mistaken for their slow-witted cousins. However, there are differences. Swamp giants tend to wear their hair long, usually braided and festooned with ornaments collected from battle. Further, they have facial hair, which most of them keep trimmed.

I think you have this covered in the initial italic blurb. The "ornaments collected from battle" thing is interesting as it could give you an idea for some things to put into the giant's bag. I see these guys being resistant to fighing, but collectors of random items from anyone they are forced to fight and kill.

A swamp giant's natural armor class is 4. However, many of the adult males wear the skin of young green dragons. This skin, cured in a manner known only to these giants, lowers their armor class to 0. Their coloration gives them a +3 chance to surprise opponents and a -3 chance to be surprised. Giants in green dragon armor have a +2 surprise bonus and -2 AC bonus. All swamp giants regenerate 5 hit points of damage per round.

You say dragon armor is taken care of, but I wonder if they can make mastercrafted dragon armor. I certanly think you should consider giving them a few points of Craft(Armorsmithing) in their stats. Or maybe they could get something like a +2 racial bonus to Craft checks that involve green dragonskin.

Combat: Swamp giants fight only when they believe their territory is in danger. They prefer to reason with a foe first (with the exception of dragons).

+1 racial bonus on attack rolls against green dragons (or all dragons)? Requirement to take green dragons as a favored enemy if they take levels of a class that gives them this ability?

They often choose a leader when going into battle and follow his directions. They prefer to circle their quarry, using their coloration to blend into the foliage.

Fluff or ability?

They begin their assaults with spells. Because swamp giants are so tuned to their environment, from birth they are able to cast entangle three times a day and plant growth once a day. A favorite tactic is to trap prey in a tangle of vegetation, then slaughter it with a volley of spears. Each giant can throw two spears per round.

Swamp giant shamen are supposed to be druids and both these spells are druid spells.

Entangle is a 1st level druid spell and Plant Growth is a 3rd level druid spell, so I'd suggest they cast these spell-like abilities with caster level of 3rd.

Habitat/Society: Swamp giants prefer to live in trees, in simple homes constructed of wood and reeds. Of course, the trees they choose for homes are immense, usually at least 10 to 20 feet in diameter and 100 feet or more tall.

Interesting. A swamp giant village sounds like a cross between Solace (from Dragonlance) and the Ewok village from Return of the Jedi.

I'd suggest a few points in the climb skill. Living on 100 foot tall trees might also alter swamp giant hunting tactics. They could perhaps sometimes move from tree to tree (Tarzan style) and attack people from above.

They generally live peaceful lives, staying to themselves and interacting with the bosk only when their cousins wish to trade. The swamp giants are known for crafting wooden bowls, dishes, and other objects that the bosk covet.

Skill points in the stats? Or a +2 racial bonus for Craft checks involving wood.

When more than four swamp giants are encountered, they are a mated pair and infants or juveniles.

Hmm. More information for the "Organisation" part of the stats. (The original stats doesn't actually have 4 swamp giants - just 1-3 swamp giants.)

The family thing changes the earier text that said: "They often choose a leader when going into battle and follow his directions." Now it is just Mrs Swamp Giant and the Swamp Giant kids listen to Mr Swamp Giant when they go into combat.

When encountered in their lair, there are 4d4 + 6 giants, one half of these adults. The remainder are infants and juveniles. An infant has 10 HD and has only a +5 damage bonus. A juvenile at 13 HD has a +7 damage bonus. If a village is threatened, the adults protect the infants and juveniles.

So a village is 5-11 adults plus 5-11 infants and juveniles.

For every 10 giants encountered, there is a 30% chance one is a shaman, a giant who is the equivalent of a 1st-6th level druid. These shamans are respected in swamp giant communities and are often sought as advisors by the village leader.

So to the village stats we need to add in a leader or a leader plus a shaman.

All the villages recognize a king. He is considered the strongest and wisest of the swamp giants and other giants look to him to appoint village leaders.

The swamp giant king is King Sully Gatherer-Clan. This NPC is on page 47 of SJR7 Krynnspace. I'll type him in later on, as his text could help with the conversion.

Ecology: Swamp giants live off the land, hunting and foraging for food. Many of them grow a large, ricelike crop. They do not keep animals for food. Their favorite meat is the flesh of young green dragons. In turn, older green dragons like to hunt the swamp giants.

Nice fluff. More evidence that these guys need a bonus against green dragons.