Special Conversion Thread: Finishing off giants and their kin

[Big Mac]

Swamp Giant NPC

I don't know if you want to convert this guy (as a swamp giant NPC) or just use his stats and fluff as a guide, but I think he is useful:

Sully Gatherer-Clan

Name: Sully Gatherer-Clan
Occupation: Swamp Giant King
Str: 24
Int: 10
Dex: 12
Cha: 18
Wis: 10
Con: 22

Sully of the Harvest Clan has served as king of the swamp giants for the past three decades.

Well into middle-age for a swamp giant, he works to retain his great strength and health, knowing that if he begins to weaken he will be challenged for the kingship.

Sully is the only swamp giant who has been off of Chislev, and he is the only giant on his world to truly have mastered hand-to-hand fighting techniques. As a child, he was captured by spelljamming pirates and sold into slavery to an unscupulous land baron in Shou Lung. Escaping after four years of hard labor, the young giant was befriended by a band of Shou Lung adventurers who took to the stars aboard a spelljammer. Sully accompanied them, and eventually their travels took them back to Sully's home. It was because of Sully that the Shou Lung group decided to explor the planet.

Sully became king at age 60, after killing an adult green dragon with his bare hands. He has ruled the swamp giants well, appointing leaders over the communities and meeting with these leaders to discuss various common problems. A prime concern is the aggressive green dragons. Sully has passed down combat techniques he learned in Shou Lung, which have proved fairly effective in fighting the great lizards. Still, he has not been able to obliterate the threat.

It is because of Sully that spelljamming adventurers are welcomed by the swamp giants. Prior to Sully's return, these giants - like the humans and demihumans of Chislev - feared and sometimes attacked visitors. Tribes of giants not beholden to Sully are rumored to exist deep in the jungles.

Sully is cordial and cooperative with all neutral and good-aligned spelljamming visitors. He is quick to strike up trade agreements and to allow humans and demihumans to hire his people as guides. The swamp giants have learned which plants are most prized by humans and demihumans and have no qualms about allowing the small people to take as many plants as they can carry. The giants know there is no shortage of vegitation on Chislev.

Originally appeared in SJR7 - Krynnspace (1993).

 

[freyar]

Lots of comments there!

I'd say CL should be higher than 3rd, potentially as high as 15. At least 5th, though, since plant growth is 3rd level.

I like the idea of a giving them favored enemy (dragon). I'd also be fine with statting up a shaman.

Giving them craft skills is also a good idea.

 

[Big Mac]

Swamp giants are believed to have evolved ages ago from bosk giants. These smaller, stockier giants are more intelligent than the nearby bosk and have learned the rudiments of civilization.

Hmm. So we copy the bosk giant if there isn't anything here (and could apply things from the swamp giant back to the bosk giant retro-actively if they looked better than what we just did). But we should give swamp giants more intelligence and a better civilsation. As well as making them shorter and fatter.

Oh, and I forgot to mention that swamp giant hairdressers are better than bosk giant hairdressers!

Lots of comments there!

At least one of them must be useful.

I'd say CL should be higher than 3rd, potentially as high as 15. At least 5th, though, since plant growth is 3rd level.

You are right. I should have said 5th level. I mixed up spell level with spellcasting level. Doh!

Is there a lot of precident for giving monsters more spellcasting oomph than the lowest level needed to cast the spells?

With swamp giants having 15 HD an LA of just +5 is going to make their ECL so high that they become epic as 0 level PCs.

I like the idea of a giving them favored enemy (dragon).

Is favored enemy (dragon) too broad? Should we narrow it down to favored enemy (green dragon)?

I'd also be fine with statting up a shaman.

Do you think we should max them out and create a Shaman that was a 6th level (Chislev worshiping) druid?

Giving them craft skills is also a good idea.

Thanks.

 

[freyar]

You are right. I should have said 5th level. I mixed up spell level with spellcasting level. Doh!

Is there a lot of precident for giving monsters more spellcasting oomph than the lowest level needed to cast the spells?

With swamp giants having 15 HD an LA of just +5 is going to make their ECL so high that they become epic as 0 level PCs.

Well, I don't think there's a hard and fast rule, but caster level for SLAs is often equal to (or at least close to) HD.

Is favored enemy (dragon) too broad? Should we narrow it down to favored enemy (green dragon)?

It's probably not much of a big deal either way, but the standard favored enemy feature works by type. Narrowing it down to green dragons only would also make it kind of extra baggage except in green-dragon-intensive settings (like Chislev).

Do you think we should max them out and create a Shaman that was a 6th level (Chislev worshiping) druid?

Not sure what you mean by maxing out, but 6th level druid works for me.

 

[Big Mac]

OK. Lets see what we can work out from Sully - the swamp giant king.

Name: Sully Gatherer-Clan

Looks like they use a forename and then their clan name.

Occupation: Swamp Giant King
Str: 24
Int: 10
Dex: 12
Cha: 18
Wis: 10
Con: 22

These stats are both above and below what Shade has. Sully has 96 points in total and Shade's swamp giant has 100 points.

Sully of the Harvest Clan has served as king of the swamp giants for the past three decades.

Now they call him Sullly of the Harvest Clan. Looks like an editing cock-up to me.

Well into middle-age for a swamp giant, he works to retain his great strength and health, knowing that if he begins to weaken he will be challenged for the kingship.

Looks like anyone can theoretically become a swamp giant king. (And anyone can theoretically become a swamp giant tribe leader.)

Sully is the only swamp giant who has been off of Chislev, and he is the only giant on his world to truly have mastered hand-to-hand fighting techniques. As a child, he was captured by spelljamming pirates and sold into slavery to an unscupulous land baron in Shou Lung. Escaping after four years of hard labor, the young giant was befriended by a band of Shou Lung adventurers who took to the stars aboard a spelljammer. Sully accompanied them, and eventually their travels took them back to Sully's home. It was because of Sully that the Shou Lung group decided to explor the planet.

Interesting (at least to me) but not much use for game stats (unless you want to convert Sully and give him Oriental Adventures fighting skills).

Sully became king at age 60, after killing an adult green dragon with his bare hands. He has ruled the swamp giants well, appointing leaders over the communities and meeting with these leaders to discuss various common problems. A prime concern is the aggressive green dragons. Sully has passed down combat techniques he learned in Shou Lung, which have proved fairly effective in fighting the great lizards. Still, he has not been able to obliterate the threat.

So not only do the swamp giants not have a hereditary king, they also do not retain their kings for life. But if Sully killed a green dragon (rather than an eariler king) it would seem that kings perhaps compete against challangers rather than fight them.

If tribal leaders are apointed by the king then members of tribes probably don't fight to settle leadership contests.

It looks like all swamp giants could (theoretically) learn imported combat skills from Kara-Tur.

It is because of Sully that spelljamming adventurers are welcomed by the swamp giants. Prior to Sully's return, these giants - like the humans and demihumans of Chislev - feared and sometimes attacked visitors. Tribes of giants not beholden to Sully are rumored to exist deep in the jungles.

This is interesting, but is mostly background material that doesn't affect the conversion. It does let us know that the lost tribes of swamp giants are more fearful of visitors and are more likely to attack them.

Sully is cordial and cooperative with all neutral and good-aligned spelljamming visitors. He is quick to strike up trade agreements and to allow humans and demihumans to hire his people as guides. The swamp giants have learned which plants are most prized by humans and demihumans and have no qualms about allowing the small people to take as many plants as they can carry. The giants know there is no shortage of vegitation on Chislev.

Again this is background information is interesting, but mostly doesn't affect the conversion. It does let us know that swamp giants can be paid to serve as guides and are aware of the sort of plants that humans and demihumans (humanoids perhaps?) are most likely to want.

 

[Big Mac]

Well, I don't think there's a hard and fast rule, but caster level for SLAs is often equal to (or at least close to) HD.

Thanks for the info. I'll go with you (or others) on this.

It's probably not much of a big deal either way, but the standard favored enemy feature works by type. Narrowing it down to green dragons only would also make it kind of extra baggage except in green-dragon-intensive settings (like Chislev).

If all dragons makes these giants easier to reuse, I'll go with all dragons.

Not sure what you mean by maxing out, but 6th level druid works for me.

IN this sentence: "For every 10 giants encountered, there is a 30% chance one is a shaman, a giant who is the equivalent of a 1st-6th level druid." The highest level for the shaman (druid) is 6th level. The Ogre Barbarian is 4th level and I thought it would be good to make the Swamp Giant Shaman a 6th level druid (which is the maximum under the 2nd edition rules).

 

[Shade]

Wow...lots to sift through.

Addressing a few things...

I've updated them with the favored enemy (dragon) ability and CL 5th for SLAs.

Dragonhide armor, like adamantine and mithral, assumes masterwork quality in its construction.

Since their HD are so high, and LA will undoubtedly push them to epic levels, we have no need for a full "as characters" section, but rather the simplified entry used for cloud and storm giants.

I like the idea of a +2 on Craft checks related to wood. How about a +4 racial bonus on Climb checks as well?

Skills: 18 (remember -2 armor check penalty)
Divvy among Climb, Craft (woodworking), Hide, Listen, Spot?

Feats: 6
Far Shot, Point Blank Shot, Power Attack, Precise Shot, Quick Draw, Weapon Focus (spear)?

I'm fine with statting up both a shaman and King Sully.

 

[freyar]

I like the feats and skill bonuses. To split up the ranks, how about 3 each in Climb, Hide, Listen, Spot, and 6 in Craft?

These are looking pretty decent. For the bags, how about some carved wood objects?

 

[Shade]

Updated.

CR 10? They seem on par with fire giants and not quite as tough as cloud giants.

Organization: Solitary, hunting party (2-3) or village (5-11 adults plus 5-11 infants and juveniles plus one 8th- to 12th-level leader and one 1st- to 6th-level shaman)?

A swamp giant stands about 16 feet tall and weighs about x pounds. (Cloud giants are about 18 feet tall and weigh about 5,000 pounds, an adult forest giant stands 18 feet tall but weighs only 3,000 pounds, a frost giant is about 15 feet tall and weighs about 2,800 pounds)

A swamp giant's bag usually contains carved wooden objects, such as spoons and bowls, and x.

Most adult swamp giants are rangers. Those that become shamans are generally druids, although a rare few become clerics. A swamp giant cleric has access to two of the following domains: x, x, x, or x.

 

[freyar]

CR, organization look fine. 4000 lb? spoons, bowls, and small art objects. For domains, how about Community, Plant, Strength, and Weather?

A thought just hit me: since they help people find useful plants, maybe Survival would be a good skill. Since Hide isn't doing them much good anyway, want to swap those ranks into Survival?