Advice on starting a new 3rd edition campaign.

[Carnivorous_Bean]

I was thinking of starting a new 3rd edition campaign after seeing the color of 4th edition (which I was originally excited about) and deciding that it's just too bland and one-dimensional for me. So, I'm thinking about this campaign -- none of my players are real power gamers, so 'build fanaticism' won't be a problem.

I was thinking of using the following books in the campaign:

PHB
DMG
All monster manuals I can get my hands on

PHB II (I really like the classes in there)
Magic Item Compendium (I want some 'different' items in there than just the usual +this, +that.)

Additionally, from the SRD optional rules, I'll be using Vitality and Wound Points, because the basic hit point rule totally breaks verisimilude for me (as do healing surges -- VP/WP is the most 'realistic' without going into cluttering detail, IMO).

I'm looking for a balance of about 30% action/combat, 70% investigation/roleplaying/exploration.

I'm up in the air about the Tome of Battle. On the one hand, it's going to introduce a LOT more complexity into the game. On the other, the fighter types are pretty drab without it.

Do you think it would be better idea to try integrating the ToB from the start, or encourage the players to make a fighterless party -- for example, knight, duskblade, rogue, paladin, wizard, and cleric? (Yes, there are 6 people in my group =P).

Any thoughts on the mix of books that I'm thinking of using for the campaign?

 

[StreamOfTheSky]

One way to help the melee guys without introducing ToB is to execute extreme prejudice in allowed books. So, don't allow CMage, CArcane, CDivine, or Spell Compendium. But allow CWarrior, CAdventurer, and possibly CScoundrel. And any other fighter/rogue/monk-focused books you have or know of. I personally just like ToB, though.

As for your current list, I think the limited list + ALL monster manuals (IMO, everything from 2+ is broken. Mob rules, War Troll, Cave Troll, Arrow Demon, +1 LA template for Lloth that adds +6 str and con... just to name a few) will be a massive advantage to any PC that "uses" that information. Mostly Druids for animal companions and wildshape, but also any polymorph users.

 

[Carnivorous_Bean]

You make a good point about the monster manuals. What do you think about the Tomes of Horrors from Necromancer as a resource for monsters beyond MM1 and MM2?

 

[StreamOfTheSky]

I'm not familiar with it, sorry. Just be leary of what the players could use against you when deciding what monsters to incorporate into the game.

 

[freyar]

Why not just require DM approval for non-core animal companions, etc? Then you don't have to worry about the various MMs. ToH is pretty good, from the sections I've read of it. Some of the monsters in ToH1 were later redone by WotC, but the ToH versions are also very good and sometimes better than WotC's.

 

[Undercover]

ToB all the way. Plus see if you can get hold of Cityscape, or a published well done city, and try your hands on some intrigue between houses/guilds in the city. Most campaigns never have such focus on a city and it could be interesting. Bad thing is that it requires more work from the DM, since well fleshed out NPCs are really important... by the dozens.

 

[Carnivorous_Bean]

Hm, the idea of restricting the animal companions, etc. to core would indeed solve the MM problem.

So, you think that the gains from the ToB outweigh the increase in complexity? I'm inclined to agree, but a little more input on the subject would be welcome, too.

 

[Kmart Kommando]

Tome of Battle is awesome.

Our current DM doesn't like it because all the powers are 'at will', but having a warmage nuking something every round of every encounter is perfectly fine to him.

Fighters are boring, book of nine swords fighters are not.
Warblades make workable two weapon fighting barbarians, something remarkably bad in core.
Crusaders make good tanks, something a fighter can't do, as everything just goes around and ignores them.

 

[aboyd]

What do you think about the Tomes of Horrors from Necromancer as a resource for monsters beyond MM1 and MM2?

I would interject that I love Tome of Horror 1 (so long as it's the black cover, revised for 3.5 version). It is very well done, it had the blessing of WotC, and it contains a lot of old & original monsters that your players might not expect.

I would also suggest, as I sit here looking at the "MASSIVE EN PUBLISHING $1 SALE" banner, that buying the 6 En World "Critters" books for $1 each will give you what is essentially a 6 chapter Tome of Horrors equivalent. It's cheap, the monsters are pretty much unheard of by most players, and buying all 6 will get you a monster manual that is nearly as thick as ToH. AND it helps EnWorld to buy their newer faster server.

 

[Asha'man]

Personally, I have a bit of a strange house rule. I let people take feats and PRCs from Tome of Battle, (including Martial Study and Martial Stance), but not use the base classes from that book. (I don't like them and prefer to nerf full casters, but that's neither here nor there) That allows fighter-types to have some Martial tricks up their sleeves without getting too complicated or making the Sublime Way indispensabe.

If you want to give Fighters(the class) something extra, let them count their full class level to Initiator level, instead of only half, or even exempt them from the cap of three Martial Study feats per character.