D&D (2024) 2024 edition questions

Gorg

Explorer
For those of you who have the new books, I have a couple of questions.

Was talking to my friend and long time DM yesterday. He just got the books, and is in the middle of planning and writing some adventures.

We got talking about classes, and Clerical Domains. I'm planning on DM'ing a 5E game (2014), myself and was ruminating on possibly adding a couple things from Tasha's- inc the domains. At the mention of domains, he about lost his marbles. Talking about nerfing the hell out of them, making the features 1 use/day, and that we would have to roll to see if our god allowed us to use that power. Along with ranting about how characters now were essentially LOLtoons... I'm looking in my Phb, and scratching my head wondering what the eff he was freaked out about. to say I was confused would be an understatement.

Then it dawned on me: he has the New edition. I have the old one. We aren't speaking the same language, lol. This should make game day fun... NOT.

So, my question is: Did they really buff the classes that much?? There's nothing I can find in any of the clerical domains I looked at that gives me pause as a DM- esp not at first level. Definitely not of a level that would make anyone a SUPERCHARACTERRRRRRR!!!!!!

FWIW, he also complained about how weak some monsters were, Dragons in particular. Giving him the impression that ROFLStomps were likely. I tried talking him down, but...

I mean, I understand that the target new audience has a very different relationship with "Fantasy" than old geezers like us. And that video games- esp multi-player online games- play a much bigger role in their lives than ours. So naturally they'd want to make a product that appealed to them, and had a playstyle they were used to. But his reaction seemed a bit extreme, lol.

It made it seem as if the difference between the 2 versions was more akin to 3e vs 4e, than a mid life upgrade/edit.

Just for "insurance" purposes, I went ahead and bought extra copies of the 2014 rules on EBay. 1 to give him as a gift (a boxed set!), and 2 extra Phb's for players to use at my table.
 

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Short answer: there is a bit of a power boost, mostly in the form of abilities being more consistent and fixing swingyness. Some abilities are actually weaker, but the general rule is that the floor raised and the ceiling lowered.

Why don't you check for yourself though.


You can see all 12 classes and one sub each. If the 2024 cleric doesn't mesh with a Tasha domain, you should be able to see that.

Keep in mind that there are a few broken parts of 2024 (Conjure Minor Elementals) but there are broken things in 2014 (Twilight cleric) so take it all with a grain of salt.
 

I feel like characters are almost all substantially stronger.

Maybe not wizard…

They tend to have more uses of signature abilities and usually get at least one use back every short rest.
 

Like a 2024 level 3 zealot barbarian is swinging for an average of 19 damage on a hit.

If he hits he can attack another creature within 5ft of the first for a 1d12+2 damage attack.

Outside of maybe variant human starting with GWM, that’s way more than a 2014 barbarian can do on a turn at that level.

Also the 2024 barbarian can also recharge 1 rage per short rest.
 
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Short answer: there is a bit of a power boost, mostly in the form of abilities being more consistent and fixing swingyness. Some abilities are actually weaker, but the general rule is that the floor raised and the ceiling lowered.

Why don't you check for yourself though.


You can see all 12 classes and one sub each. If the 2024 cleric doesn't mesh with a Tasha domain, you should be able to see that.

Keep in mind that there are a few broken parts of 2024 (Conjure Minor Elementals) but there are broken things in 2014 (Twilight cleric) so take it all with a grain of salt.
Thanks! I added that link to my bookmarks.

Looked at the Cleric, and it didn't seem too overboard. Some things reorganized- like domain at 3rd level; a new feature added Protector or Thaumaturge. (nice! Kinda stunk that a cleric didn't have access to his/her deity's favored weapon, if it was a martial one...)

uh oh- I was actually looking at Twilight cleric... Mind if I ask what the issue was? I'll look again myself of course.
 

Thanks! I added that link to my bookmarks.

Looked at the Cleric, and it didn't seem too overboard. Some things reorganized- like domain at 3rd level; a new feature added Protector or Thaumaturge. (nice! Kinda stunk that a cleric didn't have access to his/her deity's favored weapon, if it was a martial one...)

uh oh- I was actually looking at Twilight cleric... Mind if I ask what the issue was? I'll look again myself of course.
Twilight's channel divinity can give characters and replenishing pool if temp HP for 1 minute. A lot of DMs hate that it makes PCs always have a buffer of HP that makes them harder to defeat. Some also complain about the 300 ft darkvision for everyone removing the need for lighting. It's very powerful if used properly.
 

They raised the floor and reduced the ceiling.

So it's a buff to casual players (and monks), but the power is nerf for optimizers.

Also worth noting the XP per combat was adjusted up, so you will face more creatures in a combat, especially at higher levels.

And the Monsters seem like they will get the same treatment. With the weak ones getting boosted.
uh oh- I was actually looking at Twilight cleric... Mind if I ask what the issue was? I'll look again myself of course.
Yea. That one is overpowered. The numbers are just too big.

But it's not a 2024 domain, it's Tasha's.

IMO
Bonus Proficiency: heavy armor, no weapons.
Eyes of the night: 30' darkvision, or increase it by 15' if you already have it. No sharing.
Vigilant Blessing: remove

Channel Divinity: at the end of your turn, one creature in the zone gains temporary hit points equal to half your cleric level. These last until they leave the zone.

Steps of the Night: as a bonus action, you can teleport 30' to a spot that is in dim light or darkness. Once you use this feature you can't use it again until you take a short or long rest.

Divine Strike: as is

Twilight Shroud: channel divinity applies to 2 creatures per turn.
 

They raised the floor and reduced the ceiling.

So it's a buff to casual players (and monks), but the power is nerf for optimizers.

Also worth noting the XP per combat was adjusted up, so you will face more creatures in a combat, especially at higher levels.

And the Monsters seem like they will get the same treatment. With the weak ones getting boosted.

Yea. That one is overpowered. The numbers are just too big.

But it's not a 2024 domain, it's Tasha's.

IMO
Bonus Proficiency: heavy armor, no weapons.
Eyes of the night: 30' darkvision, or increase it by 15' if you already have it. No sharing.
Vigilant Blessing: remove

Channel Divinity: at the end of your turn, one creature in the zone gains temporary hit points equal to half your cleric level. These last until they leave the zone.

Steps of the Night: as a bonus action, you can teleport 30' to a spot that is in dim light or darkness. Once you use this feature you can't use it again until you take a short or long rest.

Divine Strike: as is

Twilight Shroud: channel divinity applies to 2 creatures per turn.

I think they’ve raised the ceiling too for most classes.
 

Thanks! I added that link to my bookmarks.

Looked at the Cleric, and it didn't seem too overboard. Some things reorganized- like domain at 3rd level; a new feature added Protector or Thaumaturge. (nice! Kinda stunk that a cleric didn't have access to his/her deity's favored weapon, if it was a martial one...)

uh oh- I was actually looking at Twilight cleric... Mind if I ask what the issue was? I'll look again myself of course.

Twilight cleric generates too much temp ho too early. Trivializes most encounters, which either causes dm to ramp up difficulty (causing long encounters because enemies that can hurt the PCs also tend to have a lot of hp) OR the DM can focus fire all the time, but that’s not fun for the player being focus fired.

Twilight clerics early on put the game in a degenerate state.

You might like the 2024 war domain. It doesn’t suck like the 2014 version.

The biggest thing for clerics is they get more channel divinities early. They get a small pool of healing or damage early too, which doesn’t scale much. You also get to pick if you want to be a castery cleric or a melee focused cleric early on, which eliminates one of the balance points compared to 2014.

1 other major change is healing spells heal more.

Then there’s origin feats that allow clerics to pick up things like shield spell and use it with cleric slots. The racial choices are generally more useful as well.

The thing I think your DM is missing is that almost every other class has gotten similar in power buffs as well.
 

The classes were buffed, we do not have the new monsters yet, so not sure what your friend is complaining about there... the 2014 higher CR monsters were punching below their weight class though, so maybe that is what he is referring to
 

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