4th Edition and the Immortals Handbook

U_K!

1. Sounds good.
2. I have a concern here: Multiple Aura Effects: A character might decide to pick portfolios and focus on having his or her aura do 4 different things at once. Not terribly effective (I'd rather have 1 effect at a higher strength) but this could become tedious to track.
2b. Sounds good; My concern for point #2, above, applies here too.
3. Awesome. A Primal advantage without reworking the system. Might want to specify when the action point is 'replenished' or if they just are always treated as having one in an encounter.
3b. Also neat. Sort of a 'you can't fully escape Surtur's Aura of Flame' type thing.
4. A good idea; mechanics might be tricky - Could become too easy/too hard to die.
5. Makes sense.

6. Magic items should still continue to scale (and most have conveniently predictable progressions in the DMG) with level at normal rates, unless you want to rework all sorts of other progressions. 4E makes some nice strides towards having all your items matter; IE if a level 40 deity wanted to use the daily power of his level 5 magic items, its his loss, since he only has 3-~7 total magic item uses each day. A 40th level character could certainly carry boots of cat-fall, but really they are not going to be of much use compared to their +8 Vorpal Falchions.

7 & 8. Honestly, with the exceptions of working on epic mounts, I think avatars/aspects and minions should not really grant much combat advantage at all. Its the same kind of reason people in 3E didn't like leadership - too many characters to track that don't matter. Now, if there is an ally-summoning power, then it's OK to have it create meaningful combat effects. But a system wide capability to have each character have all sorts of cronies?
Now, how to approach minions/henchmen(henchdeities?)/mounts? Adventurers vault, from the preview article on WotC.com (Don't have the link sadly) Previewed several items that summoned minions (Figurines of Wonderous power and Bag of Tricks). Mechanically, they were an (At will?) Standard Action to summon an minion of appropriate level (From a set or randomized list depending on the item), but you had the option of, as a daily magic item use, to spend a healing surge and give the minion the equivalent temporary hit points. (So if your healing surge value was 100, your summoned squirrel has 101 hit points) This looks like a pretty sound way of doing things, and may likely be how WotC prints conjuration powers in the future.
 

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Hiya mate! :)

Center-of-All said:
Honestly, I don't like the idea of gaining allies being so easy. They removed summons from the PHB for a reason, the slow the game to a crawl. And 4 of them? I just don't think it will work. The numbers of the game are based around PCs vs. monsters, and throwing 'monsters' on the PCs side is just going to break things.

Well the basic idea is to represent the monstrous animals that sometimes accompany deities.

What we could say is that these monstrous animals could be used to fill PC slots.

For instance, lets say you only have 3 PCs. Two of them could be accompanied by animal companions/steeds, each of which fill a PC slot allowing you to effectively game with the standard party of five (and thus you wouldn't have to tweak published adventures).

I can tell you already that the avatars will be useless, while the numbers on the aspects will be just stupid. They'll have more hp then the original in all likelyhood, but do pitiful damage. The whole avatar/aspect should remain NPC fodder, something adventuring gods don't bring along with them.

My reasoning for the levels of Avatars and Aspects was based upon the levels of the devils summoned by the Pit Fiend. I haven't yet fought a 4E Pit Fiend but I would imagine the allies were slightly better than useless.
 

Ltheb Silverfrond said:

Hey Ltheb mate! :)

1. Sounds good.

I am still sort of pondering the best way to incorporate the "dimensions" as such or whether Portfolios will end at 50 and some sort of Dimension based "classes" will begin at 51.

2. I have a concern here: Multiple Aura Effects: A character might decide to pick portfolios and focus on having his or her aura do 4 different things at once. Not terribly effective (I'd rather have 1 effect at a higher strength) but this could become tedious to track.

Been thinking about that and looking at most of the Auras in the Monster Manual, a lot of them already have two effects or more.

Plus 4E also has the ability to merge multiple energy types.

So someone with the Death and Fire Portfolio Auras might have a set damage that deals Fire and Nerotic damage. So I don't think it will be too taxing.

3. Awesome. A Primal advantage without reworking the system. Might want to specify when the action point is 'replenished' or if they just are always treated as having one in an encounter.

Will do. Certainly infinite action points would mean you could never die - so I don't like the idea of that - there has to be a chance of failure/death.

3b. Also neat. Sort of a 'you can't fully escape Surtur's Aura of Flame' type thing.

I like the idea that Realms are really extension of a god's will. I contemplated having the Realm the exact same traits as the Aura, but I think that might be way too powerful.

4. A good idea; mechanics might be tricky - Could become too easy/too hard to die.

Well thats why you have the Action Point balancing factor. Players can either go for damaging power or keep their action points as a sort of safety net - incase they get wiped.

Some new abilities might involve stealing Action Points (Trickery Portfolio) or granting your Action Point(s) to others (Protection Portfolio).

5. Makes sense.

Again, as with Portfolios, this is fairly simple to instigate. But its the follow-up in both cases that are giving me pause.

6. Magic items should still continue to scale (and most have conveniently predictable progressions in the DMG) with level at normal rates, unless you want to rework all sorts of other progressions. 4E makes some nice strides towards having all your items matter; IE if a level 40 deity wanted to use the daily power of his level 5 magic items, its his loss, since he only has 3-~7 total magic item uses each day. A 40th level character could certainly carry boots of cat-fall, but really they are not going to be of much use compared to their +8 Vorpal Falchions.

Correct, I hadn't taken the mathematical ties into account. Magic items must continue to scale or attack bonuses and armor classes will get totally out of whack with monster building.

I still would like to make Artifacts special though, which is something that was lost in 3E.

7 & 8. Honestly, with the exceptions of working on epic mounts, I think avatars/aspects and minions should not really grant much combat advantage at all. Its the same kind of reason people in 3E didn't like leadership - too many characters to track that don't matter. Now, if there is an ally-summoning power, then it's OK to have it create meaningful combat effects. But a system wide capability to have each character have all sorts of cronies?

Yes, it would be very tricky to implement without 'toppling the apple-cart' as it were.

Now, how to approach minions/henchmen(henchdeities?)/mounts? Adventurers vault, from the preview article on WotC.com (Don't have the link sadly) Previewed several items that summoned minions (Figurines of Wonderous power and Bag of Tricks). Mechanically, they were an (At will?) Standard Action to summon an minion of appropriate level (From a set or randomized list depending on the item), but you had the option of, as a daily magic item use, to spend a healing surge and give the minion the equivalent temporary hit points. (So if your healing surge value was 100, your summoned squirrel has 101 hit points) This looks like a pretty sound way of doing things, and may likely be how WotC prints conjuration powers in the future.

That might be a way of doing it.

I can always hold off on Mounts and Monsters for Immortals Handbook II. ;)
 

Hey guys! :)

What about this idea...replace feats with divine abilities. Each divine ability is twice as powerful as a feat, the difference is you have to lose/replace a feat to get one...?

That way at Level 60 you would have 18 divine abilities rather than 36 feats. Far less book-keeping. Also taking into account that many of the divine abilities would be upgrades anyway.

Any comments on this idea?
 


Hey all! :)

Did anyone see the latest website preview (The Cloverfield Monster) and if so, what did you think?

Any candidates for future 4E monsters that couldn't show up in a book due to potential copyright issues?
 

Hey all! :)

Did anyone see the latest website preview (The Cloverfield Monster) and if so, what did you think?

Any candidates for future 4E monsters that couldn't show up in a book due to potential copyright issues?

Why are they missing their great leap power? (EDIT: I see that's explained at the very top of the page. Woops.)

Other than that, they look impressive.
 
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Two things I'd like to see statted out come from Terry Pratchett's Diskworld series. The Great A'tuin, which I statted out in 3rd edition, and the "Auditors".

The reason I'd like these statted out is twofold. One, I want to see how you'd handle a turtle the size of a planet, and two, I'd like to see the stats for beings that can seriously threaten such a creature.

If you're unfamiliar with Auditors, here's what wikipedia has to say:
The Auditors of Reality are supernatural entities and the celestial bureaucrats. They make sure that gravity works, file the appropriate paperwork for each chemical reaction, and so forth. The Auditors hate life, because it's messy and unpredictable, which makes them fall behind on their paperwork; they much prefer barren balls of rock orbiting stars in neat, easily predictable elliptical paths. They really hate humans and other sentient beings, who are much more messy and unpredictable than other living things and they have attempted more than once to deal with this 'problem'.

One could almost call the Auditors collaborating "gods" of physics, except that the discworld definition of "god" does not include them, as they do not derive their existence from human belief. Indeed, the Auditors find belief inherently repulsive. Belief and imagination are the ultimate mess: They shape and reform the physical world in almost infinitely varied and complex ways. Where the Auditors see a fragment of carbonaceous chondrite heated by the friction of atmospheric entry, imagination sees a falling star. Where the Auditors see a random cleft in granite, imagination sees a dark cave haunted by monsters. To the Auditors, this is infuriating; after all, how can one catalogue or quantify a dragon, a basilisk, poetry or Justice? The Auditors existed long before humans and would be quite happy to exist long after them.

Fortunately for humanity and every other living thing, the Auditors can't simply wipe out life, because that's against the Rules; the Auditors can't break the Rules because, in a certain sense, they are the Rules. Unfortunately, a loophole exists in the Rules which allows the Auditors to influence humans into doing what they cannot do directly; in several of the Discworld novels, the Auditors hire humans to perform tasks that will make the world less "messy", paying them with the gold they created out of thin air using their abilities to manipulate reality.

Actually, contrary to wikipedia, the Auditors have other means to combat A'tuin, such as being able to hurl meteors and comets at the turtle, but A'tuin is able to dodge (or snap at and eat) most of these blows.

So basically, we have a planetary sized foe, and medium sized beings who can fight on that scale... which is what I want to see.
 

U_K!

OMG! I just took a look at the Cloverfield Monster, and the mega-size immediately caught my attention. As you know, I've been trying to find a way to device a similarly sized monster, but so far I've been unsuccessful. Making them as traps, while it works, gives them this inorganic feel that I didn't really like as a DM.

Your solution to the size problem is simple and elegant so far (of course, I'd want to know more about the monsters-as-terrain rules).

I do have one question: Gargantuan creatures have Reach 4. Why is it that your basic attack with the Cloverfield has Reach 15, if you "basically things like space and reach increase tenfold?"
 

Thanks Khuxan! :D

Hey Fieari mate, those Auditors sound a little bit like aspects of the Lipika to me. Interesting. Will see about adding a 4E Atuin sometime this week.

beej said:

Howdy beej dude! :)

OMG! I just took a look at the Cloverfield Monster, and the mega-size immediately caught my attention. As you know, I've been trying to find a way to device a similarly sized monster, but so far I've been unsuccessful. Making them as traps, while it works, gives them this inorganic feel that I didn't really like as a DM.

Your solution to the size problem is simple and elegant so far (of course, I'd want to know more about the monsters-as-terrain rules).

Glad you like it so far. The terrain stuff is a lot about how the monsters react, what happens when characters get knocked off the monster and so forth.

I do have one question: Gargantuan creatures have Reach 4. Why is it that your basic attack with the Cloverfield has Reach 15, if you "basically things like space and reach increase tenfold?"

Its a weird one. I was trying my best to match the reach of the individual attacks to the movie - as best I could determine it. However, for simplicity I may just change all that to Reach 40.
 

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