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Clark Peterson on 4E

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I probably should have done just that. My bad... But that would require me to be alot smarter than I acually am. :)

Clark

And we as a community a lot more understanding.

But we all have our faults. :)


That said, the "split the tree" power is what I am talking about. Shure, mechanically it may be similar to Rapid Shot, but I hope that people can see the difference in feel and flavor of being able at 1st level to fire two arrows from your bow at once at two different targets

Just a quick question what is so wrong with this?

Didn't bows in AD&D used to have a rate of fire 2/1?

If its the notion of the arrows actually curving and hitting 2 opposite targets, well that's just fluff and you can ignore fluff.
 

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Just a quick question what is so wrong with this?

Didn't bows in AD&D used to have a rate of fire 2/1?

If its the notion of the arrows actually curving and hitting 2 opposite targets, well that's just fluff and you can ignore fluff.

You are right. I COULD just close my eyes and say "its just like shooting twice, its just like shooting twice, dont let it bother you." But in a way it isnt. Just ignoring the fluff to me isnt he answer. I agree I could. Here is why I dont like to just ignore it:

First off, because that isnt what it is--it is in fact the ability to fire two arrows at once and have them hit different targets. That, to me, represents a greater shift to the fantastical than I like in my game. I agree, that is a personal preference. And this isnt a tenth level guy, its a first level guy.

Second, it represents what a character can DO, and it can be used as a guide for what players can claim they also should be able to do. While this has never actually happened for me with 4E, I can tell you in my many years of DMing we have often discussed what a character should and shouldnt be able to do when they are making up stuff not specifically covered by the rules. When determining if it is something the PCs can do, we routinely compare the reqeusted effect with actual powers and abilities. "The rules say I can do X, so why in the world cant I do Y?" That type of debate happens all the time. Here you have a power that lets a firstie fire two arrows at once against different targets. That is a pretty substantial power. Granted, it is mechanically very similar to just shooting twice. But that is not what it does. That kind of power sets the bar for discussing other powers and for ajudicating other actions.

I guess in the end my problem is that this is (to me) simply too cinematic (notice I didnt say anime) for my style of play in general and for first level PCs in particular. I am not trying to cram my way of play down your throat. :) Thats just my view. I happen to think that this increase in cinematic powers was an intentional design decision and that many people love it. I also happen to think that, as a design decision, I can take that stuff out or change it or scale it back and still be perfectly supportive of 4E :)

I dont want to get too bogged down in that specific example. It may not be the best one. Its just the one I happened to pick in my post, so I am sticking with it.

Clark
 
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SNIP
Clark



Okay , if instead of the actual PHB, we were to just cut away all the fluff description to all the abilities and those were replace with really mundane descriptions would that had made it more palatable for you?

For example:

Split the Tree
You fire two arrows at once, which separate in mid-flight to strike
two different targets.

Split the Tree
You prepare 2 arrows and fire them one after the other at two different targets.

PS slightly related lookup any youtube video of Randy Oitker.
 
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Also, don't forget that AD&D allows a triple rate of fire for ready missile weapons during each segment of surprise (DMG pg 62). So if you had your bow ready and you got the drop on your enemies, you could have six arrows in the air if they were surprised for 1 segment, and twelve arrows in the air if they were surprised for two segments. Bows + surprise rock in AD&D.
That rule is, almost universally, considered to be broken. Gary disavowed it and I don't know many people that actually use it...
 

After reading what Orcus posted on the Necro boards, but not all of this thread...

As much as I have, in the past, enjoyed crying out:

"3.75"

In all honesty I probably wouldn't use and am less likely to buy it.

4E with 1E style, and some supporting mechanics, is definately something I am looking for. I did buy the Advanced Players Guide, and am glad I did. That seems to be what Orcus is promising, as he has for several months. I look forward to him delivering on that. And I am pretty sure he will.
 


Clark -

The sad fact is, regardless of how well worded you made your statement, there would have still been people here who would've gotten upset enough to attack you for it. There is, depressingly enough, a group of people on these forums that takes any joke about 4e, or event he thought that 4e could be improved, as a personal insult.
 


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