Bigby's Icy Grasp questions

[Hypersmurf]

I'm not buying the "the standard action is listed under sustain" excuse. Where else would it be listed?

Under 'Effect', like the Move action to move the hand.

You can move the hand with a move action any time, but you can only use a standard action to attack with it if you take the minor action to Sustain it.

-Hyp.

 

[keterys]

DM: Pick another number.
DB: 5.
DM: That's the same number.
DB: You didn't tell me to pick a different number...

Yes, he did:

'1 : different or distinct from the one first considered'

 

[N8Ball]

DM: Pick a number.
DB: 5.
DM: Pick another number.
DB: 5.
DM: That's the same number.
DB: You didn't tell me to pick a different number...

DM: Grab a beer.
DB: OK. (grabs a beer)
DM: Grab another beer.
DB: Sure. (grabs the same one)
DM: Where's my beer?
DB: You didn't tell me to grab a different one...
<fistfight ensues>

 

[Starglim]

1) No, you can only make the attack after you sustain the spell.

2) A strict interpretation of "another target" would suggest you can't attack the same target that you just released, but at that point you're using cheese to counter more cheese.

edit: See below.

 

[Starglim]

The standard action to attack is not a 'sustain standard', regardless of whether the ability to use it in the sustain minor text. You need to sustain minor for the spell to function, so you're arguing that you cannot then make a standard attack with it.

If it were instead worded 'You may instead use a standard action...', I would agree and that would solve things nicely. That may indeed be RAI, meaning that you also can't sustain for damage and attack another target, at all, making the spell a bit less powerful - which I don't think is a good thing, but it is interesting.

I don't see it. The rule as written and intended is that you must take a minor action to sustain the spell (which does damage to the first target) followed by a standard action to make another attack with it.

 

[Starglim]

Under 'Effect', like the Move action to move the hand.

You can move the hand with a move action any time, but you can only use a standard action to attack with it if you take the minor action to Sustain it.

You could use a move action to move the hand, but not sustain it, and it would last until the end of your turn. Interesting, though I can't see that this would do anything useful.

Wait. If you've grabbed a target and you move away from the grabbed target, you let go and the grab ends (p. 290). So I revise my previous answer: yes, you can make the hand release a grabbed target. It takes a move action.

 

[keterys]

Wait. If you've grabbed a target and you move away from the grabbed target, you let go and the grab ends (p. 290). So I revise my previous answer: yes, you can release a grabbed target. It takes a move action.

Yep, that's one reasonable ruling (and why I listed it as either move or free to drop, potentially). Now, do either of the following work:

Start: Target is grabbed by hand
Move: Ends grab
Minor: Sustain hand
Standard: Attack the target you just released

Start: Target is grabbed by hand
Minor: Sustain hand to deal damage
Move: Ends grab
Standard: Attack the target you just released

I'll admit, the most important question for me was the attack _then_ sustain question, but I figure I may as well cover _all_ the bases

 

[Hypersmurf]

Start: Target is grabbed by hand
Minor: Sustain hand to deal damage
Move: Ends grab
Standard: Attack the target you just released

I'd say no in this case - the target you just released was the target when you sustained, so it is not 'another target'.

Start: Target is grabbed by hand
Move: Ends grab
Minor: Sustain hand
Standard: Attack the target you just released

Hmm. This one, I'd probably allow. There was no grabbed target when you sustained, so it's not clear that the target is forbidden from being considered 'another target'.

-Hyp.

 

[LittleFuzzy]

Why would anyone even want to release the target and grab it again on the same round? The damage is done with the sustain. All the Standard action does it make an attack roll to grab the target.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Why would anyone even want to release the target and grab it again on the same round? The damage is done with the sustain. All the Standard action does it make an attack roll to grab the target.

The standard action attacks another target. Int vs Reflex, on a hit deal 2d8+Int cold damage and the hand grabs the target.

So if you could sustain, release, grab all on the same target, you'd deal 1d8+Int and 2d8+Int.

-Hyp.