Guild Wars is everything DDO should have been

[Vocenoctum]

Hmm... Guild Wars sounds interesting, but significantly different from WoW. I tended to solo a lot in WoW, but even though I was soloing it was fun to see people walk by, hear them in the chat, or fight side-by-side with them picking off a particular kind of mob. I don't know what it was about just being able to see other people that made it so entertaining, but it was.

It sounds like Guild Wars only has a small number of regions where you can see people but the "meat" of the game is just you and your party. If I were to solo through those it would probably end up being a very lonely experience.

About how long does it take to do an instance in Guild Wars? One of the reasons I didn't group often or do many instances in WoW was that I tended to play in short bursts. I didn't want to be stuck at the computer because I was in a group and it would be rude to leave in the middle.

Think of it like this, in WoW terms.
Each little town and major city that has a flight point is a "shared zone", which is open to anyone. You need to reach them by foot to open them, but then can automagically go to any of them.
Everything else is an Instance. It's just your group. It's not a "dungeon", it's all the wilderness and everything. Significantly, monsters will not respawn while you're in an area, but the enter zone resets when you leave it.

GW2 is supposed to be more like a combo of GW1 and a regular MMO, but info has sort of stopped, so not sure of the status anymore.

 

[Felon]

Thanks for the info.

So, no Mac support?

 

[Mercule]

I got a free trial of GW with a video card I bought about six months ago. My wife and kids were out of town, so I went ahead and played the 15 hours. Normally, I loathe online games, whether Diablo or WoW. I actually really enjoyed GW, though some builds were more fun than others.

I'm actually looking to pick up a copy of the game, but I keep having higher priorities. As others have said, make sure you get a version with heroes. They make solo-ing viable and fun.

 

[Evilhalfling]

About how long does it take to do an instance in Guild Wars? One of the reasons I didn't group often or do many instances in WoW was that I tended to play in short bursts. I didn't want to be stuck at the computer because I was in a group and it would be rude to leave in the middle.

most areas /quests take less than 1.5 hrs - and for farming points there are a few I can do in about 20 min. I would frequently do one of these before going to work in the morning. Big quests or vanquishing an area (killing every monster in a wilderness area, in hard mode) could take 2-2.5 hours.

 

[WizarDru]

My wife and I currently have Prophecies, Nightfall and Eye of the North (as well as the bonus mission pack). Nightfall is the best overall game, IMHO, while Eye of the North reflects the changes you find.

Prophecies has some nice missions to it, and the story is decent...but the overland areas are far apart and sometimes really a pain to navigate. Leveling is more time consuming than it should be, IMHO. Nightfall, by comparison, makes leveling a much faster and more enjoyable affair. Eye of the North is like the advanced course.

What makes GW great are several things, IMHO:

1) Works great solo OR group
2) Not concerned with artificially extending play time via the Grind
3) Separates PvE and PvP totally

#2 is a big one. In any other MMO, travel is meant to suck up a LOT of time. GW only forces you to explore to get somewhere. Once your character has made it there, he can freely travel there by just finding it on the map and selecting it, allowing him to teleport directly there. If your party is in a town, then the leader can teleport the entire group at once.

Here's another one: if you choose HELP, it will provide you, AUTOMATICALLY, a series of links to the GW Wiki for every mission you currently have. Think about that. Because they've already got your money, effectively, they don't have to worry about making quest info hard to find out. In fact, they do the opposite. You can search the wiki from directly in the game (though you get taken out of the game to see the results). Want to find the collector who takes Silver Bullion Coins? One quick search and BINGO.

And while you cap at 20th, you still get advancement, just not in attribute points. Especially with things like the Title tracks, where you earn bonuses and privileges by certain actions or quests that can provide bonuses in play. Example: in the Eye of the North, the race of giants known as the Norn only respect strength. The only way to earn their respect is by fighting...heck, their merchants and guides won't even help you unless you defeat them in battle, first! Once you've earned a title amongst their people though (by earning 1000+ Norn reputation points and the title Slayer of Imps), you can choose to display their title and gain an addition 50 hit points while journeying through their lands.

The thing I like the most about GW is that it allows me to play the game in my own way at my own pace. We put it down for several months and only picked it back up recently and are having a blast. I highly recommend Nightfall because the quest designs are better, IMHO.

As far as quest length, it varies wildly. A simple fedex quest can literally be over in 5 minutes. A more complicated quest can run from 30 minutes to an hour. Epic quests (usually in dedicated zones) can run over two hours. Nothing in GW, however, is on a time clock (AFAIK) except the occasional instanced mission (like the first mission to reach the Eye of the North, which takes about 5-10 minutes for the first leg) and most can be put-off for as long as you like.

Oh and the occasional holiday events, like the Wintersday festivals, are Hella-fun. I got a Jingle Bear animal companion for my Ranger.

 

[DonTadow]

Exactly.



Hmm... not entirely sure... 1-2 hours maybe?

Bye
Thanee

Guild war is a phenomenal game, but not what DDO should have been. Guild wars is primarily played solo by players. Rarely have i gone to a place in my 3 years ofp laying and needed to or wanted to party. The only place that is neccessary is the guild part of the game, which is fun, but D&D has always been cooperative, not adversarial.

 

[WizarDru]

Guild war is a phenomenal game, but not what DDO should have been. Guild wars is primarily played solo by players. Rarely have i gone to a place in my 3 years ofp laying and needed to or wanted to party. The only place that is neccessary is the guild part of the game, which is fun, but D&D has always been cooperative, not adversarial.

Amusingly enough, almost all of the people I know who play Guild Wars are married couples. But you're right, GW is NOT what DDO should have been. I liked the cut of DDO's jib, but it's implementation just didn't work for us. I know several of my players who tried it and thought it was 'ok', but it just wasn't quite right. I thought, in many ways, that Neverwinter Nights was a much better implementation of what DDO should have been. If DDO and NWN could have had a baby, that's what I would have liked DDO to be.

As it was, several of my players tried it for a free trial and felt they'd seen as much as they were likely to and never went back. Which is a pity...but then, we have a weekly game, so the online game couldn't really compete with that.

 

[Jasperak]

Guild war is a phenomenal game, but not what DDO should have been. Guild wars is primarily played solo by players. Rarely have i gone to a place in my 3 years ofp laying and needed to or wanted to party. The only place that is neccessary is the guild part of the game, which is fun, but D&D has always been cooperative, not adversarial.

With respects to cooperative v. adversarial game play, you are absolutely right; Guild War's end game (after campaign play) does not resemble anything I have ever played in D&D.

My comments are based on my experiences in the game while I am playing the campaign. Campaign being the operative word. DDO has no point, no internal or external drive. There is nothing in DDO that inspires me to play.

On the other hand GW has a great story. I actually watch the cut scenes to find out more about what is going on. There are plenty of missions and side quests, but you cannot repeat them for experience after they are completed. That gives me the impression that I am advancing through the world and campaign. From start to end game, is there a unifying story or campaign arc in DDO?

In DDO even though you have a wide variety of races and classes to play, everyone will play the exact same quests. With GW you will have quite a few set quests that are the same, but your classes will dictate what your side quests will be. A Warrior/Monk's campaign is going the have a different list of quests than an Elementalist/Mesmer. To me there is just enough variety in quests that I do not mind that the set quests are the same. In that it reminds me of a time when we were short on players and the DM (or I for the other players) would custom tailor adventures to take advantage of the limited number of characters and their strengths.

Truth be told, DDO most resembles my favorite play style in D&D, the mega-dungeon. The major difference though is all the mega-dungeons I have played though have been dynamic environments. Monsters move in when others are cleared. While the walls and layout might be the same, the inhabitants rarely were. We would often return to certain areas to clear the new monsters, but we never returned because the same monsters would keep dropping some crafting item. When was the last time anyone farmed Temple of Elemental Evil for scale drops?!? (in all honesty, GW has this as well, but it is not something or any importance. GW's go collect X amount of Skale Fins is not something you have to complete to advance in the game.)

All of the games that I listed in my original post had more D&D feel than DDO ever will. So while I can back pedal on "GW is everything DDO should have been," there is virtually nothing in DDO that resembles D&D at all.

More to follow in my next post.

 

[Jasperak]

Amusingly enough, almost all of the people I know who play Guild Wars are married couples. But you're right, GW is NOT what DDO should have been. I liked the cut of DDO's jib, but it's implementation just didn't work for us. I know several of my players who tried it and thought it was 'ok', but it just wasn't quite right. I thought, in many ways, that Neverwinter Nights was a much better implementation of what DDO should have been. If DDO and NWN could have had a baby, that's what I would have liked DDO to be.

As it was, several of my players tried it for a free trial and felt they'd seen as much as they were likely to and never went back. Which is a pity...but then, we have a weekly game, so the online game couldn't really compete with that.

DDO's implementation is the exact reason why I think GW evokes more D&D-like feelings. For me D&D is a more tactical and resource management game than shooter. Who the hell ever kept track of combats rounds with an egg timer?!?

While GW and most of the other games I mentioned are real-time, twitch reflexes do not play an as important part. Those games generally reduce combat to a choose your target and action and the computer will handle all the dice rolling. Now you must decide with what ability you wish to use in real time, but you character's chance to hit does not depend on how fast you can press keys or click the mouse. It is a fundamental difference that allows me to concentrate a little more on the tactical aspects of the game.

D&D in its later incarnations also concerns itself more with builds. Games like GW remind me of a cross between Sorcerers and Wizards. Any given class combo in GW will allow you to use well over a hundred abilities. That's your spellbook. But before every quest you get to choose what eight abilities you want to be able to use at-will. That's your spontaneous casting. DDO is primarily concerned with your builds but they can be nerfed with any given update or Mod. Thats almost like taking 75% or my Magic the Gathering cards and making some change to them that ultimately changes the capabilities of my deck. DDO is very much about the current build of the day because two months later a feat and enhancement combo could be nerfed to oblivion.

Regardless of if they are D&D games or not, others seem to have a closer kinship with D&D. NWN is by far the best experience in real-time D&D gaming, although SSG's gold box games (Pool of Radiance, Curse of the Azure Bonds, etc...) and games like the Wizardry series, The Bard's Tale series, or the early Might and Magic series nail turn-based as I have played it for the past 20+ years. Turbine could have used the above as inspiration for DDO or they could have used Baldur's Gate, Icewind Dale, or Champions of Norrath. They chose SOCOM and Unreal Tournament. WTF?!?

In hindsight I guess I could have said any of the above games are what DDO should have been, but I have been enamored with GW. It has the character-build sub-game that a gear monkey like me enjoys, it has the exploration for unlocking abilities sub-game that ensures the completionist that I am will play the game to its fullest, and a campaign that actually interests me. If DDO was not going to be faithful to D&D in its game play, if it was going to introduce new sub-systems into the mix (enhancements I'm looking at you) then GW did the same thing but in a far more rewarding manner.