Battlerager: Experiences?

[Klaus]

Welcome aboard Claudio.

PS: No offense meant fellows, but I thought we were here to discuss actual battlerager experiences, and not keep imagining what would or would not be ok for our gamming tables.

PPS: Ha! Now I hame a craghammer! Too bad It´s "brutal" proprety does not work for the d20 attack roll...

Screw those dwarvish weapons, and get yourself a sword!

 

[Regicide]

The fact that the BRV Ftr has a lesser chance to hit (at least +1, usually +2 with hammer, and potentially +3 because of lower Str to get the higher Con) means that although the BRV Ftr lasts longer, he also makes the fights *go* longer, as he's not hitting as often.

Thats only true if the BR is solo. In a group situation less healing means the other characters are free to do things other than healing the BR. Clerics, Paladins and Warlords can choose more aggressive powers, or focus their healing on strikers to keep them in the fight when aura damage and the like might mean they'd have to sit back or be less aggressive.

 

[Dr_Sage]

Thats only true if the BR is solo. In a group situation less healing means the other characters are free to do things other than healing the BR. Clerics, Paladins and Warlords can choose more aggressive powers, or focus their healing on strikers to keep them in the fight when aura damage and the like might mean they'd have to sit back or be less aggressive.

Hummm I respectfully disagree this time.

At least in the battle example I provided I was the one that sent the dragon to the hands of the Raven Queen with a 8hp dmg Crushing Surge, so If I had hit just 1 more blow the dragon would have fallen one round earlier. A couple more and he would have fallen 2 rounds before. If i had hit him with my Shield Bash, the dragon would have been prone more time for the rogue to unload on the beast.

And as I mentioned I consumed every party healing resourses, aka both the cleric healing words just to keep me in the fight.

Theory and pratic are very different fellows.



PS: Claudio I would gladly use a sword if it didn´t looked sooooo wrong. I can´t imagine Gimli or Flint Fireforge using swords....

 

[Herschel]

Thats only true if the BR is solo. In a group situation less healing means the other characters are free to do things other than healing the BR. Clerics, Paladins and Warlords can choose more aggressive powers, or focus their healing on strikers to keep them in the fight when aura damage and the like might mean they'd have to sit back or be less aggressive.

While this is somewhat true, intelligent (heck even semi-intelligent) beasties will just ignore the Battlerager if he gives up too much attack bonus or damage. Sure, the battlerager isn't soaking the heals but he's not soaking up attacks either.

The key to being a good defender is to have a low enough AC/durability to be a viable target and to hit often enough not to be ignored. Go too much either way and he's basically a concrete speed bump or a wannabe striker.

 

[Regicide]

While this is somewhat true, intelligent (heck even semi-intelligent) beasties will just ignore the Battlerager if he gives up too much attack bonus or damage. Sure, the battlerager isn't soaking the heals but he's not soaking up attacks either.

Semi-intelligent creatures would run the heck away. DnD is about fighting suicidal lemmings, not intelligent creatures.

The key to being a good defender is to have a low enough AC/durability to be a viable target and to hit often enough not to be ignored. Go too much either way and he's basically a concrete speed bump or a wannabe striker.

The key to being a good defender is having a DM that serves monsters up to you on a silver platter. The idea for the role comes from MMOs where monsters fight whatever has the highest aggro and never runs away and almost without exception that aggro is generated artificially with taunt/provoke/whatever powers.

 

[Regicide]

And as I mentioned I consumed every party healing resourses, aka both the cleric healing words just to keep me in the fight.

Theory and pratic are very different fellows.

From what I can see you were healed twice, with BVR you'd have been healed four times. So for the cost of a +1 or +2 to hit you freed up 2 actions by the cleric, and conserved 2 surges. That seems like a good tradeoff, does it not?

 

[Keenath]

I won't say tl;dr, but I did skip along a bit on the last two pages. If I repeat somebody, my apologies.

I keep hearing this "artillery and controller" comment coming up, as if that's supposed to make it all okay -- as if throwing in ranged attackers somehow balances the benefits of BRV.

I mean, okay, so it does mitigate the benefits to a certain extent; BRV doesn't recharge your temp HPs when you get hit by a ranged attack.

But look -- most ranged attacks target non-AC defenses. In other words, the defenses that are just as weak on a plate-clad greatweapon fighter as on your a lighter-armored BRV fighter. Fireballs don't care how big your armor class is. In other words, against ranged attacks, a BRV is merely no weaker than a standard fighter! That is not a good argument for BRV being balanced; it's support for the view that the BRV is stronger than an average fighter!

 

[Spatula]

The key to being a good defender is having a DM that serves monsters up to you on a silver platter. The idea for the role comes from MMOs where monsters fight whatever has the highest aggro and never runs away and almost without exception that aggro is generated artificially with taunt/provoke/whatever powers.

The idea of a knight protecting his companions from harm is just a little bit older than MMOs. Computer game monsters only use crude scripts because there's not an actual intelligence available to guide their actions, like there usually is in PnP games.

 

[Regicide]

The idea of a knight protecting his companions from harm is just a little bit older than MMOs.

Heh. That has nothing to do with the role of defender.

Computer game monsters only use crude scripts because there's not an actual intelligence available to guide their actions, like there usually is in PnP games.

Mmm, no. They use simple AI because of custom and type of game more than anything. People enjoy beating up simple things instead of dealing with complex behaviour. The AI available even back when Everquest was made is MORE than sufficient to brutalize players if the designers so wanted. People don't like monsters running away, grabbing every mob in the zone then coming back and turning them into goo.

 

[GoLu]

The key to being a good defender is having a DM that serves monsters up to you on a silver platter. The idea for the role comes from MMOs where monsters fight whatever has the highest aggro and never runs away and almost without exception that aggro is generated artificially with taunt/provoke/whatever powers.

The key to being a good defender is to give enemies a basic choice: waste attacks against me, or try to attack my buddies and be punished horribly for it. That way, no matter what the DM does, you win.

No sense relying on the DM doing something dumb when you have the tools required to win even if the DM plays smart.