Ranger

[thepunisher17397]

Hey folks...

Another question about rangers and the archery powers....

What is the difference (other than number of times usable) between:

Twin Strike and Two Fanged Strike?

I notice that the later includes bonuses from a high stat (aka str or dex)...but wouldn't these automatically be included on any attack (str for melee and dex for ranged)?

I look forward to the responses (since it seems like a waste to have an encounter power that does almost the same thing as an at-will power)...

-Paul

 

[Dragongrief]

Bonuses to damage are only included if the specific power say so. So in the case of Twin Strike - no, ability bonuses are not included in damage.

Weapon specific bonuses are included whenever damage specifies x[W].

Ability bonuses are added when stated (i.e: 1[W]+Str Mod)

Feat based bonuses are added any time they apply (considered Specific vs. General, I believe) - possible exception: Static damage. Hit: Deal X damage.

 

[Kordeth]

Other differences: Twin strike can target one or two enemies, two-fanged strike only targets one and does extra damage equal to your Wisdom when you hit with both.

 

[Smeelbo]

Although you do not get the + STR/DEX, Twin Strike does get your power, feat, enhancement and maybe even item bonuses to damage rolls, and almost every other benefit from using the weapon: critical ranges, extra effects on crits, and so on. The loss of 3-5 damage is a small price to pay, especially as level rises.

So I compare every Ranger power to Twin Strike, and my conclusion is that I want every opportunity to attack when it is not my turn: I want essentially clock cycles, and to Maximize the Utility of each Clock Cycle.

For example, do I really want a power that does 2 attacks at 2[W] + Stat? Or gain an interrupt that does 1[W] + Stat? Like Disruptive Strike? Spitting Cobra Stance? Arrow of Vengeance?

My theory is that Twin Strike is good enough for standard action, and so the thing to do is find as many ways as possible to attack without consuming a standard action. Gather as many things that at least potentially trigger on an attack: bonuses to attack rolls and damage rolls, effects on a crit, increased chance to crit. Then roll as many crits as you can.

Classic D&D.

I like Evasive Strike because it is substantially different from Twin Strike, and at the cost of an attack, I can shift. Likewise, Splintering Shot seems worth giving up an attack.

While Twin Strike may appear boring, I find it provides clarity in evaluating the other powers. Is another [W] and causing 5 damage and slowed (save ends both) really worth the loss of an attack (Hunter's Bear Trap)?

Smeelbo

 

[Elric]

While Twin Strike may appear boring, I find it provides clarity in evaluating the other powers. Is another [W] and causing 5 damage and slowed (save ends both) really worth the loss of an attack (Hunter's Bear Trap)?

Hunter's Bear Trap also comes with Str/Dex to damage, half damage on a miss, and slowed for a round on a miss. At the levels when you have Hunter's Bear Trap, yes, it's better than Twin Strike.

Of course, Hunter's Bear Trap is no Jaws of the Wolf (if you're a melee ranger).

 

[Smeelbo]

I didn't mean that Hunter's Bear Trap is worse than Twin Strike, just that Twin Strike makes the trade-offs clearer. The questions are: what I am gaining for giving up one of the attacks from Twin Strike, and could I get something better than than that for the same price or less?

While Hunter's Bear Trap does half damage on a miss, Twin Strike gives me two chances to hit, and thus two chances to deliver Hunter's Quarry, and any other damage bonuses other than STR/DEX bonus.

I do not find trading away an extra attack for extra damage as compelling as some other possibilities.

Smeelbo

EDIT:

Hunter's Quarry appears not to require a successful attack, merely that you damage your Quarry. That has some interesting implications. So attacks that deal damage on a miss, auras, Cleave secondary damage, and so on, all can deliver Hunter's Quarry. If I read correctly, then an attack that deals half damage on a miss delivers full Quarry damage.

 

[Kordeth]

Hunter's Quarry appears not to require a successful attack, merely that you damage your Quarry. That has some interesting implications. So attacks that deal damage on a miss, auras, Cleave secondary damage, and so on, all can deliver Hunter's Quarry. If I read correctly, then an attack that deals half damage on a miss delivers full Quarry damage.

Sorry, that's been fixed in the updates. You have to hit the target.

 

[Smeelbo]

Hmmmm....just read the Errata, as you mentioned. That means that Ranger powers with one attack have only one chance to deliver Quarry damage, as I first read, and so the margin between Twin Strike and single attack powers like Hunter's Bear Trap are just as "striking" as I first thought.

I'd only give up the second attack if I got something distinct from simple damage, like Evasive Strike, which I have often found useful.

Smeelbo

 

[Burrito Al Pastor]

Twin Strike is the best at-will power in the game. People often think that rangers have lousy at-wills, but the fact of the matter is that the other three would be just fine if they weren't being compared to Twin Strike.

I played an archer for a while, and he was a lot of fun. I honestly don't recall what his other at-will power was; I never used it. It was just Split the Tree, Spikes of the Manticore, Shadow Wasp Strike, Two-Fanged Strike, and then Twin Strike until we rested.

You wouldn't think such a static combat strategy would be any fun. I guess that's just how awesome the game was.

 

[Smeelbo]

It's not a static combat strategy, it's just one decision that is easy to make. There's still positioning, team work, and so on. You only have two At-Will powers anyway, a lot of classes are going to be mashing one button most of the time. It's when and where you make the exceptions that's fun to think about.

One of my criteria is to make characters that thrive on encounter level resources, so my game day won't end as soon. Having a decent At-Will makes that much easier.

Smeelbo