[Forked Thread: How Important is Magic..?] 5 things you need to know

I will start with my list, tho I will shoot it up a bit after:

1) a passing knowledge with a mythology. Preferably Greek/Roman myths, but any will do. This gives you a background in the gods and alot of the classic monsters.

2)Lord of the Rings: preferably the books, but the movies are a passable alternative

3)Any and all of Jim Butcher's books: Both Dresden files and the Codex Alera. Good easy reads but more depth than Harry Potter.

4)Alan Dean Foster's Spellsinger series. Good depiction of the classic game world.

5) Any of the other good fantasy: The riftwar, the belgariad,...

The first thing that I would point out is that none of these are computer games. I dont think that computer games help with the background to role playing games, and frequently hurt it. Even the best of todays MMORPGer is a pale and limited imitation to what even a poor pen and paper game can do. With a good DM, the sandbox is infinite and constantly evolving. With the best MMORPGer, the sandbox is fixed and only altered by faceless programmers on an intermittent basis.

On top of that, a pen and paper game is an internal activity with hearing as the main source of information. That is more similar to reading, where the visualization is internal, and the information source is language, than it is to a computer game, where the main interface is visual. In a computer game, you see the trees. In a book, or a pen and paper game, you imagine the trees.

Lastly, I think that books tend to give a better background in motivations. In any computer game I have played, the feelings of the players involved were pretty irrelevant. Books give you a why someone is doing this that computer games cant. That helps make it a role playing game.
 

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Steampunk. More Steampunk.

Really, that's what I'd love to see as a baseline. Not necessarily giant steam powered clockwork robots (although that's not bad) but the basic concept of steampunk which is a synthesis of SF and Fantasy themes. Drop the whole elitist claptrap that you cannot have SF in fantasy or vice versa and go back to the time when the lines between the two genres were much more blurry.

A sufficiently quantified magic is indistiguishable from technology
 


- Elder Scrolls games; the graphics in Oblivion are striking and evocative

If you had said Morrowind, with it's stark badlands environments, it's mesopotamian dwemer, the rich variation between the architecture of the three houses...I totally would've backed you up.

But Oblivion?

http://i44.tinypic.com/2eg4jk7.jpg

Putting aside my personal likes or dislikes and thinking mainstream-popular -fantasy as of right now my list, in no particular order would probably look like this...

1. A Song of Ice and Fire by George R. Martin
2. Final Fantasy...or just JRPG's period
3. LotR movies
4. Avatar the Last Airbender
5. World of Warcraft

I'm not sure about ASOFAI, but the rest of those seem pretty spot on. Maybe include anime in general somewhere in there?

I think that, overall, midieval fantasy has shifted away from a strong western perspective. Instead, much of sword and sorcery style fantasy nowadays is seen through video games and anime mainly originating from Japan. Western developers seem to only care about brown and grey shootan games.
 

While it's clear from other threads that D&D is not a single monolithic entity with defined boundaries, it is still a realm/genre that has edges. They are wispy, but there are clearly things that are beyond those edges. Add just one of those items...ok, make orcs Klingons...and it doesn't cease to be D&D. But add in the borg, a guy named DATA who is a cyborg, warp drives, space ships, and such...and it isn't modern fantasy. It also isn't D&D.

I dunno, my group are currently going "off the rails" of my H1, H2 campaign and one player keep channelling Col. Tigh as a Cyclon in character so I am going to riff off that and introduce over time Terminators and Brog from a Cube trapped in an rift connecting the Trekverse, the Feywild and the Far Realms.
 


I dunno, my group are currently going "off the rails" of my H1, H2 campaign and one player keep channelling Col. Tigh as a Cyclon in character so I am going to riff off that and introduce over time Terminators and Brog from a Cube trapped in an rift connecting the Trekverse, the Feywild and the Far Realms.

I think you just shorted out my brain. Now I must destroy it all. Bwuah-ha-ha-ha-ha!!!!
 


I cannot enjoy anime... tried it, really did... sat through a few seasons of various series with various SOs... even picked up supposedly excellent manga. It just isn't my fit. And I wouldn't want D&D to go in that direction.

I also wouldn't want D&D to go in the direction of things I do enjoy... I love Butcher's work (and to be honest I can see a lot of Codex Alera possibilities from Book of Nine Swords, Incarnum, and similar in 3e and a lot of the powers I've seen from various groups in 4e). I really love the Tales of Alvin Maker from Orson Scott Card... but I wouldn't want that to come into D&D as a whole.

What I want from D&D is the ability to produce a game I want to play, not a game which is inherently one thing or another. I remember old 1e and 2e games where we would find strange swords made of crackling energy, strange firearms shooting bolts of energy, ancient curses, Greek and Norse influenced mythologies, and hundreds of tropes from various sources that the DM brought in.

And I ate it up... but it wasn't necessarily MY D&D. I think that when it comes down to it that D&D should be Fantasy+. Do you want in depth discussions of mythology? How about giant suits of walking armor powered by the gods themselves? Or talking trees, wandering sages, fearsome insects, secret wars... the list goes on.

My preferred form would be a game where the basics are covered for fantasy, and then everything else can be built in. The 'classic' feel of D&D never really inspired me either... Tolkien and 'classic' fantasy were great as a starting point, but there are a hundred directions and a million stories that all of the races, classes, spells, and monsters can go into... and they should all be allowed.

Create a game that is bareboned, and build everything else around it, providing simple ways to do so, and you have a game where all of these different things can occur. D20, with its myriad offshoots, settings, and genre was great... but it was just the beginning. Each group needs to build their own mythos, and develop their own style, or borrow from sources which are available.

But please... don't make new assumptions the core of our gaming experience. I won't taint your pool with the things I like (unless you come into my games) and I expect the same from you. My own perfect D&D is just a big old set of LEGO rules. We can build big castles, or futuristic colonies, or grim little hovels... and the directions should exist for al of these, and you should be able to let all of these ideas run free together (to a certain extent).

Give me vanilla ice cream... I have all the flavor I need right here ;).

Slainte,

-Loonook.
 

Man, I just don't get this. It's like you want do define modern fantasy as "anything that has magic." Are there even limits or boundaries as to what modern fantasy is, given the limitiations you've put into the quoted post?

I'm not insulted/angered/emotionally turned off by the quoted post, but man, it seems quite limiting as to how we can "appropriately respond" while at the same time expanding "modern fantasy" to just about the whole world of literature and movies.

Anime?
Steampunk?
Would starship troopers fit?
WWII demons and technology (as per Hellboy)?


It's like you've asked "how do we add guns to D&D and still call it D&D?"

When the answer was: you don't. If you add guns/lazers/lightsabers/etc. it then has crossed a line and ceases to be D&D.
Wait so 3.5 FR wasn't D&D?
(hint they had guns and didn't even hide that fact even a little)
Then why do fans get so much uppity over 4th edition FR where they have no guns?!

Apparently people like D&D + guns since FR wasn't hated too much in 3.5.
 

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